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Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?

Rockmeister said:
I agree that the importer has not paid the same as a japanese shopper...my mistake there agreed.
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That was the only thing I criticized. And I used the 100% as an example for the bill because it isn't uncommon in Hifi, I don't meant that you said 100% + 100%.

The bill was easier to understand with the example of 100% were my thoughts.
 
Old Shatterhand said:
That was the only thing I criticized. And I used the 100% as an example because it isn't uncommon in Hifi.
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100% markup implies 50% trade discount from retail price. Aside from some cable, etc, products, I'm not sure I can think of anything that has such a generous dealer margin. Much closer to the truth would be a 50% markup, ie something around 1/3 discount off retail. Certainly when it comes to the hardware (electronics, sources, etc).
 
notevenclose said:
Now you've strayed into manufacturing cost, which is a completely separate issue.

Your original statement was "Come on chaps, we all know UK retailers require an 80-100% markup on hi-end products..."

Which is simply not true IME.

Can you provide one example where this is the case which is not already covered by the possible conflagration of circumstances already described?
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SCM-50 ASL's retail for £14000 in 2020. I bought a pair brand new 11 years ago for £7500 (in Walnut) from an ATC premium retailer. These were built to order and not stock items.
Now tell me how much has inflation increased in the last decade?
 
Cereal Killer said:
SCM-50 ASL's retail for £14000 in 2020. I bought a pair brand new 11 years ago for £7500 (in Walnut) from an ATC premium retailer. These were built to order and not stock items.
Now tell me how much has inflation increased in the last decade?
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Inflation varies hugely from market to market. Cars have gone up at a different rate to hifi, which has gone up at a different rate to food, and so-on. You have to compare apples with apples.
 
Cereal Killer said:
SCM-50 ASL's retail for £14000 in 2020. I bought a pair brand new 11 years ago for £7500 (in Walnut) from an ATC premium retailer. These were built to order and not stock items.
Now tell me how much has inflation increased in the last decade?
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What?

The point you made: "Accuphase UK prices are a bit OTT when you compare them to the prices in Asia."

WTF has ATC's manufacturing cost got to do with the discussion in that context?
 
@Sue Pertwee-Tyr Maybe you are right, maybe I'm right. I saw the price for a Nagaoka MP300 needle in Germany (419€) and bought mine in Japan (135€+VAT, shipping, fees, etc.) because of that. But it doesn't matter at all because the 100% were an example!!!

Your 2.250€ for shipping and insurance and VAT for a 2.500€ product is far from the truth as I showed in the post above and that is a hard fact.;)

I stop here because I get the feeling that you consciously will not understand my point and only try to upset me.
 
The bottom line is surely quite simple. Any customer has a choice, you can choose to pay the price of a given product in your market or not. If you're not happy, for whatever reason, vote with your wallet.

If you buy a 100v Accuphase in Europe and import it yourself, you may well save a bit of cash. You might of course factor in that if you take that Accuphase for repair to an appointed distributor anywhere in Europe you'll likely be encouraged to stick it where the sun don't shine. Again it's obviously up to the individual purchaser to consider the value of that service/support.
 
notevenclose said:
What?

The point you made: "Accuphase UK prices are a bit OTT when you compare them to the prices in Asia."

WTF has ATC's manufacturing cost got to do with the discussion in that context?
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Calm down old chap... keep your tits in order... YOU asked for an example of UK retailers profit margins, you got one. No need to spit your dummy out.
 
‘Traditionally’ 60% margin split 40/20 between the distributor and the retailer, ‘pro’ usually only 25% , but of course today everything has changed, I foresee an increasing number of manufacturers selling direct.
Keith
 
Cereal Killer said:
Calm down old chap... keep your tits in order... YOU asked for an example of UK retailers profit margins, you got one. No need to spit your dummy out.
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I'm perfectly calm. Mildly amused by some of the nonsense in recent posts, but I'll concede my interest's waning fast.

I have to leave you now to go and work on my business plan, I discovered recently that starting a high-end audio dealership's a lot more lucrative than I'd realised, so no time to waste in getting in on the action.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
To be fair, CK, we didn't get one. It's a bit like asking for an apple and being given a tennis ball.
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Sorry i disagree, the example is one of my many UK purchases of hi-end audio kit. Its an example of a typical profit margin of a £10K+ product.

Another is Weiss, I had been offered a brand new DAC 502 for £3750 cash, that's got an RRP circa £8K and this is from a hi-end dealer who has actual stock he'd like to move on. Do you think hes wanting to make a loss on these or selling below his investment cost?

How do you think Rick can sell a pair of D&D 8cs for £5500-6000 http://www.musicraft.co.uk/special-offers/ ????
 
Old Shatterhand said:
@Sue Pertwee-Tyr Maybe you are right, maybe I'm right. I saw the price for a Nagaoka MP300 needle in Germany (419€) and bought mine in Japan (135€+VAT, shipping, fees, etc.) because of that. But it doesn't matter at all because the 100% were an example!!!

Your 2.250€ for shipping and insurance and VAT for a 2.500€ product is far from the truth as I showed in the post above and that is a hard fact.;)

I stop here because I get the feeling that you consciously will not understand my point and only try to upset me.
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That's very unkind, OS, I'm not deliberately misunderstanding you. That would be the actions of a troll, which I am not.

But I don't think you can take one anecdotal example of a personal import, and infer that a formal importation process through authorised distribution networks will be the same. Nor am I certain that the customes duties for a cartridge would be the same as those for an amplifier, because I simply have no experience of these things. I have simply taken another poster's example of the likely tariff, because he seemed to know what he was talking about, and worked through the example. I'm sorry if you have gained the impression I was misrepresenting what you said.
 
Cereal Killer said:
Another is Weiss, I had been offered a brand new DAC 502 for £3750 cash, that's got an RRP circa £8K and this is from a hi-end dealer who has actual stock he'd like to move on. Do you think hes wanting to make a loss on these or selling below his investment cost?
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I don't think you can correlate the price you've been offered in the circumstances with the trade price.

I'd say what you've got there is a dealer who is:

a] going through a hostile divorce and wants some spending money his wife's solicitor can't 'see'

b] about to receive a visit from some HMRC bouncers about his unpaid tax/VAT bill

c] about to go tits-up (in spite of his colossal profit margins) and reckons three and a half large in the hand is a lot better than f*** all if the next thing he urgently needs to buy is a tent and a sleeping bag.
 
Thats a lot of hypothesis (bollox in other words) ... The dealer is going no where. Hes just not registered with Weiss anymore as there products simply don't sell much due to the silly prices.

Another example; I bought a brand new (stock item) Devialet D220 Pro CI for £3745 early 2018.
 
@Sue Pertwee-Tyr One kind general advice.:) When people tell you how they feel or how they understand things there is nothing unkind. It is the proper way to say things without being offensive. I was told so from several people who are teaching people in communication skills.

Anyhow, I'm glad that you don't mean it in that way, so no offense from me. :) Again, I'm no native speaker and maybe I don't recognize the fine lines in the different meanings and interpret things wrong.:oops:

I didn't take an anecdotal example, I showed you hard facts with links which proof that I'm not telling BS. Maybe you should read my post again.:)

Also I didn't say that the duty for a cartridge is the same as for an amplifier. I took the highest duty for electronics in Germany to be safe so that no one say, that fee is too low. The duty for an amplifier in Germany can be maximum 13,9% but it also can be lower like 7% or less.;)

So the 581,30€ is a high possible amount when you take the example with 68€ for the insurance. If the company has shipping contracts and/or the tax is lower than 13,9% it would be less.:)
 
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