advertisement


LP12 21st Birthday upgrade plan

Elephantears

Elephantears

Trunkated Aesthete
My LP12 will be 21 next October and I'm planning a 2 stage upgrade plan from its humble state (Valhalla, Basik Plus, AT 95e). The current plan is; first, get it an Ittok for a New Year present, then a cartridge for its birthday next October. An ESC Troika seems the logical step. (When Andrew did his needle-drop earlier in the year I listened to them carefully and liked his Ittok/Troika set up the most.)

But are there alternatives I should consider? My deck is 1990 vintage, and the guy who serviced my deck suggested that I could get away without Cirkus because my deck has the best pre-Cirkus bearing. And I've always been happy with the slight bloom.

What I want is a good deal more refinement, with more depth and presence in the mid-range and the highs calmed down a bit. I don't yearn for any more dynamics and sound-staging; for these qualities, it seems to me that even in its basic form an LP12 is better than extremely expensive digital sources.

As for carts, I did very much like some Ortofons on the recent needle-drop (the Cadenza Bronze and the old SPU), but they are out of my price range.
 
If you only have a Valhalla or similar, go for an Armageddon or perhaps Lingo2. I would recommend the Cirkus too. If you need a new cartridge try the Adikt.
 
Get the new 2001 motor and the 4th top-plate bolt. The deck just seems to come alive. Big and cheap.

Having heard the difference between a cirkus and original bearing, I'd definitely recommend a cirkus. Better timing, instruments more focussed in both time and space.

And a Trampolin - natural sense of timing I've heard from no other upgrade.

And a Lingo 2. Similar upgrade to cirkus.

I moved from a Basik Plus arm to a late Ekos 2 and although it was an improvement, it wasn't a huge upgrade for me, although it did allow me to get a top cartridge, which was a huge upgrade.

I'd also recommend a complete rebuild by a good dealer. Cymbiosis or similar.

I also thought the T.Kable was a great upgrade, lets more of what the deck is doing out the box for the first time ever.
 
IMHO the above are not serious suggestions as an alternative to an ittock/troika since they would mosly make no audible difference to the deck in its current state ie basik plus/at95e.

In order of VFM I'd say th correct path is


1) ittock
2) bolt mod (no need to buy a whole new top plate here, gluing the head of a bolt to the old one is just as good)
3a)esco troika
3b) PS upgrade to Lingo or armageddon
3c) better armlead or onboard phono
4)motor ? though you could just get the same benefit via an aftermarket thrust bearing kit much more cheaply.
5) cirkus - you probably won't hear the difference unless you've done most of the above. Its a late 80's or early 90's deck so it already has one of the better bearings

Only consider the tramp if you have a dodgey stand.
 
I have the same just pre cirkus black bearing and its excellent I got a cirkus sub chassis of e-bay for £20 and fitted my bearing to it.
Its the sub chasis ringing that gives the bloom so try and get hold of one second hand I found it an improvement as others have stated you can also get a new set of black springs and grommets for penuts now so you basikly :rolleyes: have the cirkus upgrade for about £50

Alan
 
Ittok, esc troika, new motor, armageddon .... that's at least £1200-£1300 spent and the deck by itself is already worth £500. Have you considered another deck at all or are you only interested in staying with the Linn ?
 
lotus340r said:
Ittok, esc troika, new motor, armageddon .... that's at least £1200-£1300 spent and the deck by itself is already worth £500. Have you considered another deck at all or are you only interested in staying with the Linn ?
Click to expand...

Indeed. My LP12s 24th birthday present was getting rid of it. I'm so glad I did. The only bit I kept was the Ittok which now partners an old Lenco. Apart from a plinth I made with some cheap ply and a replacement bearing, the lenco is stock. Better in every way. I would never go back. Plus, months later, I still have some on the change in the bank!

Cheers,

Nic.
 
colasblue said:
its a fair pont really

that sort of dosh buys a very nice Michell or NA setup, or a very retro 401
Click to expand...

£1800 buys a lot of secondhand TT so its always worth looking at your options unless you're just a Linn man through and through

I have a CIRKUS/HERCULES/LVIII/Trampolin here and side by side with my WTA using the same cart (miyabi) .... well, its not even remotely close. And don't talk to me about prat and 'swing' and the 'tune', both decks do that amply.

This is the 3rd LP12 ive had back here of late. IME you need a radikal and a keel to make it sound lifelike, controlled and with a more even and full frequency range... things that other decks already do at the level they were designed at, i.e. no upgrades required.
 
I think it's fair to say you are spoiled for choice as to upgrade options with the lp12

I would take a look at a cirkus and lingo as the biggest bang for buck upgrades

I would also agree that the trampolin is a huge improvement.
 
I had a feeling there would be some suggestions to change the deck, and yes I have thought about it. In truth I've heard very few other decks. All I have to go on are things like needledrops on here. When Andrew (flatpopely) did his bake-off needledrop I was very impressed by the Well Tempered Amadeus, but I still chose the LP12 above that. It was a close call, and I must admit that my vote was swayed a little because I felt pretty sure that one of my two favourites was the LP12. But it clearly had the dynamics and depth of timbre in the mid-range that made me fall for it in 1990 when I first heard an LP12 play Coltrane.

There is also a sentimental attachment - I got the LP12 on my 21st birthday, and now it will soon be 21, so I feel I should follow it through.

I like Alan's idea about fitting the cirkus sub-chassis with my existing bearing. I'm not going to get into any mods myself, but I will ask the guy who serviced my deck about this. Just over a year ago I got a full service with new suspension from Simon of The Audiofiles and he did a good job.

Colasblue, your suggested upgrade path seems very sensible to me. I'm just a little haunted by Warren's comment about the upgrade from Basik Plus to Ekos 2 making only a slight difference. I'd planned to get the Ittok first so I could see the differences in stages, but if its the cart that really makes the difference then it might be better for me to wait and go for the whole upgrade in one. As ever, the problem with these things is the enormous difficulty getting a demo. The same goes for other decks - its so hard to compare.

I'm currently in Ottawa for Christmas and there is a very good dealer here who sells a Project deck and in one of their best systems they use it with an Ortofon Cadenza Black, which costs more than the deck. So clearly they believe that the cart is king.
 
Like others I doubt the value for money in spending £1000-1500 on upgrading a Linn when a secondhand deck for this price will be a thing of beauty - classic stuff like Garrard 401/301 and Thorens 124s for a start, and Notts/Michell/Rega/WTA modern alternatives. I've had a few LP12s, I liked them all, but my current 401 is better than all of them and was much less than £1000.

I like the sound of the cutprice Cirkus though, cheapskate that I am!
 
My deck is 1990 vintage, and the guy who serviced my deck suggested that I could get away without Cirkus because my deck has the best pre-Cirkus bearing. And I've always been happy with the slight bloom.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
go with your gut and keep the bearing- I prefer it to the cirkus too ( I bought a cirkused deck this year). I would go for broke on an arm- a s/h Ekos. You could get the bearings and wiring done by AO. Its so much better than the Ittok

I'm just a little haunted by Warren's comment about the upgrade from Basik Plus to Ekos 2 making only a slight difference.
Click to expand...

Did someone actually claim the Ekos 2 was only slightly better than the Basik Plus?? Thats crazy! I went from a Basik Plus to an Ekos 3 months after it was launched. The renowned Linn dealer Robert Ritchie let me hear one- it only took 2 minutes listening and I bought one.
 
TheDecameron said:
Did someone actually claim the Ekos 2 was only slightly better than the Basik Plus?? Thats crazy! I went from a Basik Plus to an Ekos 3 months after it was launched. The renowned Linn dealer Robert Ritchie let me hear one- it only took 2 minutes listening and I bought one.
Click to expand...

No, I think he just meant that with the same cart it didn't really demonstrate the upgrade, meaning that the main purpose of the arm was to allow for a better cart. There seem to be two schools of thought; either the cart is king, or an Ekos with a nail is better than a Basik Plus with Akiva.
 
colasblue said:
Only consider the tramp if you have a dodgey stand.
Click to expand...

Not my experience at all. The Tramp makes things less metronome-like and more naturally phrased on decent tables.


More generally, there have been several suggestions from several different perspectives. What you should do for your birthday is should clearly be done from your own perspective. You seem to clearly like the musical approach of the LP12.

For me, getting the Akiva was huge and one of the best upgrades I've ever done. I've not heard a Troika though have read things about it that I clearly get the impression it has a similarly spectacular level of performance, so getting a Troika and obviously having a suitable arm is a necessary platform to hang the cartridge from is a great idea.

I'd also read/listen around and find out what changes other upgrades make to the deck. So if you have a little cash left over the newer AC motor/4th bolt would be a great upgrade. The Tramp is cheap too.

So basically you could either upgrade to a top-end pickup (arm/cart) or you could upgrade the deck: reduce its distortions/vibrations/information-loss, improve its structural integrity, its motor, psu. So in a sense, your deck is getting information off the record and your cartridge is outputting some of that information, you can either get your deck to get more information off or you can get your cartridge to output more of the information you're deck is already retrieving, or some combination of the two.
 
Elephantears said:
In truth I've heard very few other decks. All I have to go on are things like needledrops on here.
Click to expand...


Not dissimilar to a lot of LP12 owners then and I mean that with the greatest of respect.

Even if it comes to nothing, book yourself in for a few dems and a few mates houses and hear a handful of decks. It can do no harm and I think you might be in for a surprise. 1.5-2k gets you an awful lot of used Michell/Garrard/WT/rega etc..

Needledrops tell you zilch IMO. I liked the Phonosophie deck in FP's bakeoff but having heard one for real there's absolutely no way I'd ever buy one.
 
lotus340r said:
Even if it comes to nothing, book yourself in for a few dems and a few mates houses and hear a handful of decks. It can do no harm and I think you might be in for a surprise.
Click to expand...

Great advice. I heard 6 decks before I decided which one to buy. Comparing turntables, especially side by side where possible, is a great thing to do.
 
1. Ittok, then troika (do the £50 sub-chassis idea sure if you can find), or

2. then add/ go a proper ps step up to a Lingo2 (not Herc or Lingo 1- little point/ bang for buck as the valhalla needs to be up'd to a Lingo 2 for significant sound benefits to warrant spending £250+ on this part of the deck imo).

both 1 + 2 will be a huge ammount to spend, and the valhalla is a good ps, so I'd just stick with arm/ cart if it was me, ie max bang-for-buck and not spending oodles.
 
I realize the advice to hear other decks is sensible, but practically I'm not sure how easy it would be to hear an LP12 along side a series of other decks. Most Linn dealers are exclusive, and I don't want to carry my deck around to do comparisons.

There does seem to be some consensus that Ittok/Troika is the most sensible way, and since I'm not about to come across a bargain Ekos I'll probably do that, in two stages. Then, after my deck has had its 21st birthday, and we've celebrated by playing lots or records, maybe I'll try some other decks just to see. But we have to complete this 21 years together.

Regarding needle-drops: of course, they are only a shadow of the real thing, and they will never give you what really counts - that melting feeling you get when it all sounds just right. But I think they can bring out the characteristics of a deck or cart in an useful way. For my ears, some of that richness of timbre, complexity and warmth (that Islay malt quality that the LP12 has) does come through in comparison to cleaner modern machinery.
 
Apparently there is much different between the various versions of Ittok. Later is much better. LVIII Mk1 or 2 is ideal I was told.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top