LP Playback: Is It Really Reference-Quality?
- Thread starter mjw
- Start date
Interesting that people slag him without knowing anything about him.
Yes, he sells his services on audio setup and advice. So what?
The most interesting thing about him is that for pretty much any system (from modest to very expensive) his recommendation is not to buy more expensive equipment, but to optimize setup.
He claims that he can improve almost any setup to give better sound, without changing hardware. People who have applied what's written in his book or hired him to actually do a setup in home (yes, he will come to your home a spend a day optimizing your setup - for a fee) confirm this is true.
I have no personal knowledge of this, just reporting what's out there.
I have little reason to doubt his claim that most TT's are not optimally setup.
Yes, he sells his services on audio setup and advice. So what?
The most interesting thing about him is that for pretty much any system (from modest to very expensive) his recommendation is not to buy more expensive equipment, but to optimize setup.
He claims that he can improve almost any setup to give better sound, without changing hardware. People who have applied what's written in his book or hired him to actually do a setup in home (yes, he will come to your home a spend a day optimizing your setup - for a fee) confirm this is true.
I have no personal knowledge of this, just reporting what's out there.
I have little reason to doubt his claim that most TT's are not optimally setup.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
Er... because one mans 'finest vinyl setup' is still going to have a different presentation of the music than another mans. And individuals will continue to like 'their' presentation. Someone using a Japanese direct drive with parallel tracker and MM cart is not necessarily going to appreciate an SME deck and 9" arm with an MC on the end, nor a guy who runs a Garrard 401 in a 2 tonne plinth and a 15" arm and Decca London on the end (actually I made that up, I think). Never mind the 350Kg Clearaudio Statement - only Ferrari owners need apply.
There is so much variety.
Aha!
Julf
Facts are our friends
You might not have noticed it, but the majority of music is distributed as digital files these days...
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
And yet digital is so perfect now that there is no need for a load of different transports/DACs/Streamers/Codecs... etc.. etc.. Oh.. hang on...
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Exactly. 'No names.. no pack drill' as they say.. but there was at least one person on the fringes of UK audio who tried to make a living in the same way. His manner, opinions and business practices were all very impeachable.
Mull
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Ahem!!! Vinyls are floorcoverings... Vinyl records are vinyl records, or LPs, or singles or whatever.. but they are not vinyls...
If you must join the rest of us in pointless and opinionated debate about the opionions of an opinionated bloke we have never met.. and an analogue v digital debate which will never be settled... then at least please use the correct terminology.
Mull
Rockmeister
pfm Member
how do you 'tune' a piece of plastic?
Apart from the deck/arm/cart, the rest oif the system will be as it would be for digital replay, so you mean, tune the deck?
Decks do nothing but turn, or they shouldn't.
Ditto all an arm has to do id trace the perfect track across the record, following the cutting lathe (try a tangenital arm)? and the cartdige is the key. There lies the main variation, and there the tuning ability.
It's not perfect. No-one has ever claimed it was perfect, but it sounds lovely when right.
Apart from the deck/arm/cart, the rest oif the system will be as it would be for digital replay, so you mean, tune the deck?
Decks do nothing but turn, or they shouldn't.
Ditto all an arm has to do id trace the perfect track across the record, following the cutting lathe (try a tangenital arm)? and the cartdige is the key. There lies the main variation, and there the tuning ability.
It's not perfect. No-one has ever claimed it was perfect, but it sounds lovely when right.
Nagraboy
Ausculta fili
What is the use of this term 'reference' anyway? Seems a nebulous concept. Sometimes it's used to mean 'the absolute best', other times it's simply an arbitary standard which an individual person uses to just other gear.
Technically 'high-end' vinyl replay would appear to be inferior to a sympathetically produced digital recording played on a £200 CD player, but our ears aren't that good anyway, and we don't automatically derive more enjoyment from technically better specs, so it hardly matters. I like playing records, distortion and all, so it doesn't really bother me.
Technically 'high-end' vinyl replay would appear to be inferior to a sympathetically produced digital recording played on a £200 CD player, but our ears aren't that good anyway, and we don't automatically derive more enjoyment from technically better specs, so it hardly matters. I like playing records, distortion and all, so it doesn't really bother me.
Andrew.B
pfm Member
Ahem!!! Vinyls are floorcoverings... Vinyl records are vinyl records, or LPs, or singles or whatever.. but they are not vinyls...
If you must join the rest of us in pointless and opinionated debate about the opionions of an opinionated bloke we have never met.. and an analogue v digital debate which will never be settled... then at least please use the correct terminology.
Mull
Well, vinyl is a 'flawed' medium afterall
I'm just wondering, that considering music is likely digital domain before it is engroovened into le plasticular disks, why not make a master copy of a vinyl playback using a really good setup and distribute it like that, there could be different versions, thus saving everyone a massive amount of money on esoteric decks. Needledrops are not allowed on this forum sadly and most of the ones I have are of very rare vinyl/ancient indie releases where saving the recording was more important than quality which was meh to begin with, so it's more a pondering than a serious question.
Of course this is assuming the waveform in to an ADC matches the waveform out the DAC.
This is probably true, thus the success of the recent MoFi 'One Step' process - bringing us a 'step' closer to the master tape. By most accounts some of the best that audiofools have laid their ears on. I have the Santana and it is indeed amazing.
Andrew.B
pfm Member
Oh for sure, the biggest draw of (what little I have/use) vinyl for me is the physicality of it, the apparatus of reproduction being visible and easily taken-in, unlike a microchip that is very boring to look at, as fascinating as they are inside. Same with valves; plates, grids, glowing elements, electrons, massive traffos, vs small black mosfets or even worse, Digital type amps with next to nothing on show.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Indeed. Which is probably why some people like to own and constantly fiddle with elderly motor cars, motorcycles, even things like static deisel engines etc. It's all good fun, especially compared to the relative uniformity and 'over electronification' of modern equivalents.
Then there is also the sense of 'expertise', personal involvement, and even control over.. the whole 'thing' that is of interest to you. This is largely what 'hobbies', 'pastimes' etc., are about.
Incidentally. I make copies of my vinyl using a Yamaha HDR CD 1500 or somesuch. It is clumsy to use, but produces very accurate copies of the vinyl ( or any analogue or digital source) and burns them to disc. It only works with the more expensive 'CD-RA' ('for Audio') blanks, which AIUI are no different to stanbdard CD-R except that they have some sort of 'flag' on them representing the payment of duty. I mostly use the re-recordable version, then copy that to a cheaper CD-R using EAC on the PC.
Mull
Then there is also the sense of 'expertise', personal involvement, and even control over.. the whole 'thing' that is of interest to you. This is largely what 'hobbies', 'pastimes' etc., are about.
Incidentally. I make copies of my vinyl using a Yamaha HDR CD 1500 or somesuch. It is clumsy to use, but produces very accurate copies of the vinyl ( or any analogue or digital source) and burns them to disc. It only works with the more expensive 'CD-RA' ('for Audio') blanks, which AIUI are no different to stanbdard CD-R except that they have some sort of 'flag' on them representing the payment of duty. I mostly use the re-recordable version, then copy that to a cheaper CD-R using EAC on the PC.
Mull
Julf
Facts are our friends
Absolutely. But I would never assert that my old Triumph, Hesketh, Bristol, Morgan or Land Rovers are objectively "better" than a modern car.
OK, the Triump, a 1997 model, is almost modern, and unlike the pre-Hinckley Triumphs, doesn't leak oil, starts every time, and the electrics don't cut out in rain, so not sure it counts...
Any specific reason to stick to CD-R instead of flash memory or hard disk?
They are certainly needed in faith based audio. In real world audio things are rather different.
Julf
Facts are our friends
And DACs can of course be "voiced" to please different audiences. Codecs keep getting more efficient, there is of course no difference in the sound of lossless codecs.
Yes, I think this is a very important point: vinyl is a 'nice sounding' medium i.e. the flaws are not grating on the ears (if you don't mind a bit of surface noise & a few crackles).
Interestingly I know a producer who will happily put his sounds through cassette tape a few times, to capture the 'romance' (wow and flutter, compressed dynamic range) of tape, which does give a lovely sound if done right.