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Loudspeakers too far apart?

You missed my point, illustrated in the graph, which is that the room interference in the bass (peaks and nulls) is massively worse.
I didn't, but at least we do agree on the preference for firing down a room except in unusual situations. Since moving (a few times) to houses with rectangularly disposed rooms in '82, I've always used the narrow wall area for speakers, whether they were Briks or big ProAcs or big ESLs. Not least that it's functionally difficult to fire across most rooms under, say, 16' (5 m) width with free space speakers.
 
I didn't, but at least we do agree on the preference for firing down a room except in unusual situations. Since moving (a few times) to houses with rectangularly disposed rooms in '82, I've always used the narrow wall area for speakers, whether they were Briks or big ProAcs or big ESLs. Not least that it's functionally difficult to fire across most rooms under, say, 16' (5 m) width with free space speakers.
If you use subwoofers and high-pass the main speakers (as you should), then the latter can be pushed back against the wall.
 
Depends upon the speakers and I completely disagree with your second sentence; quite opposite thought here assuming the speakers are not designed for wall position or omni-directional. Firing down a room (depending on dimensions of course) allows greater freedom of spkr positioning and space around them and the listener.
Well, I'll adjust my comment and say "in my experience". Setting up various speakers in rooms I was not familiar with, for HiFi group meetings etc. I found this to be the case more often than not, but there is no one solution fits all. OB need space, a friend has Linkwitz LX521 and they image like no other, correctly positioned in the right space.
 
I'm dumb, but I'm also not native English speaker, so I have trouble understanding what 'firing across' or 'firing into' means. And are those two the same or the opposite?

Edit: I will add firing down, LOL. Make up your mind, folks.
 
I'm dumb, but I'm also not native English speaker, so I have trouble understanding what 'firing across' or 'firing into' means. And are those two the same or the opposite?
In a rectangular room, on the long wall, firing across the room, on the short wall firing down the room, not sure about "into".
 
When stating the distance of your speakers from the wall behind is this; wall to back corner of speaker, or, wall to front of the drivers?
As @tuga has already explained, distance to any surface should be measured from the acoustic centre of the driver for the most accurate SBIR and early reflection calculations. It annoys me when folk cite distances from the rear or side edge of the cabinet given how different the baffle width and enclosure depth can be from one speaker design to the next.
 
The Kudos advice needs to be taken on the basis that this is advice about placement of their loudspeakers, not general placement advice, though.

Totally agree. Kudos also recommend pointing their speakers straight ahead as they recommend slightly off-axis listening to counter the relatively sharp tweeter (Seas Crescendo I think). In contrast other speakers no doubt benefit from toe-in to better balance their tweeter contribution. I've also read (although not heard) of omni-directional speakers (like Duevel) that can be placed anywhere in a room whilst still producing good sound. Not sure if anyone has tried these types of speaker and found them less fussy over room placement? I guess they will still suffer from room resonances, side-wall reflections etc.
 
If you use subwoofers and high-pass the main speakers (as you should), then the latter can be pushed back against the wall.
Should? Depends on the speakers and the subs, as does positioning of the mains.

One could go for the position that gives the flattest frequency response or one could go for the positioning that makes the reproduced sound most like having real musicians performing in front of one. Often the best position for one aim isn't best for the other so some compromise is often required.

I guess it depends if one wants one's hifi to sound like an illusion of the original performance or an "accurate" hifi reproduction of the recording. If you want the former experiment with positioning as all speakers are different as are listeners. If you want the latter follow whatever the latest ideas/theory are and fire up REW!
 
Totally agree. Kudos also recommend pointing their speakers straight ahead as they recommend slightly off-axis listening to counter the relatively sharp tweeter (Seas Crescendo I think). In contrast other speakers no doubt benefit from toe-in to better balance their tweeter contribution. I've also read (although not heard) of omni-directional speakers (like Duevel) that can be placed anywhere in a room whilst still producing good sound. Not sure if anyone has tried these types of speaker and found them less fussy over room placement? I guess they will still suffer from room resonances, side-wall reflections etc.
I have a couple of pairs of omnis and whilst, like any speaker, they can be plonked down anywhere and make a sound careful position pays dividends. By and large they do need to placed a reasonable distance from walls so that the sound reflected from walls arrives sufficiently alter and reduced volume than the direct sound.

Once they have ben positioned well they can be enjoyed from a wide range of listening positions. They don't have a narrow sweet spot, unlike, say, Martin Logans, although when heard from the prime listening position they do give excellent, realistic, imaging.
 
Should? Depends on the speakers and the subs, as does positioning of the mains.

One could go for the position that gives the flattest frequency response or one could go for the positioning that makes the reproduced sound most like having real musicians performing in front of one. Often the best position for one aim isn't best for the other so some compromise is often required.

I guess it depends if one wants one's hifi to sound like an illusion of the original performance or an "accurate" hifi reproduction of the recording. If you want the former experiment with positioning as all speakers are different as are listeners. If you want the latter follow whatever the latest ideas/theory are and fire up REW!

My comments refer to forward radiation monopole boxes, not dipoles or omnis.

There are several reasons why the mains should be bypassed:
- to offload the need to produce the low end, increasing the maximum SPL capabities and reducing intermodulation distortion
- to allow positioning of speakers between 1 and 2 metres from the front wall
- to deal with one of the peaks which result from constructive room interference, by crossing the mains to the woofers at that frequency
- if the speakers have ports it will also allow bypassing them

I've recently posted an experiment where I simmulated the positioning of my speakers very close to the front wall with REW and then measured the results, which pretty much matched the simmulation.
They now sound accurate and like an illusion of the original performance. Win-win.
 
My comments refer to forward radiation monopole boxes, not dipoles or omnis.

There are several reasons why the mains should be bypassed:
- to offload the need to produce the low end, increasing the maximum SPL capabities and reducing intermodulation distortion
- to allow positioning of speakers between 1 and 2 metres from the front wall
- to deal with one of the peaks which result from constructive room interference, by crossing the mains to the woofers at that frequency
- if the speakers have ports it will also allow bypassing them

I've recently posted an experiment where I simmulated the positioning of my speakers very close to the front wall with REW and then measured the results, which pretty much matched the simmulation.
They now sound accurate and like an illusion of the original performance. Win-win.
I was referring to box style speakers. I’ve yet to find any that sound more “realistic” close to the front wall rather than in free space. I discovered that before measuring with REW so wasn’t influenced by notions of “best“ measuring should sound better. Having said that, some speakers do need to be near the wall to get any decent bass and in that case some compromise might be required, possibly involving sub(s).

Omnis and dipoles do need to be away from, particularly, the wall behind them for reasons I gave in post 89.
 
I was referring to box style speakers. I’ve yet to find any that sound more “realistic” close to the front wall rather than in free space. I discovered that before measuring with REW so wasn’t influenced by notions of “best“ measuring should sound better. Having said that, some speakers do need to be near the wall to get any decent bass and in that case some compromise might be required, possibly involving sub(s).
Good for you
 
There are several reasons why the mains should be bypassed:
Think I've lost the plot in this thread, Tuga, but what has the mains got to do with speaker placement; esp. bypassing them (speakers?). If you're talking about subs, then I never had the plot to start with, as I've never had, wanted, been interested in or needed subs. :confused:
 
Think I've lost the plot in this thread, Tuga, but what has the mains got to do with speaker placement; esp. bypassing them (speakers?). If you're talking about subs, then I never had the plot to start with, as I've never had, wanted, been interested in or needed subs. :confused:
I refer you back to @david ellwood comment earlier.
 
Think I've lost the plot in this thread, Tuga, but what has the mains got to do with speaker placement; esp. bypassing them (speakers?). If you're talking about subs, then I never had the plot to start with, as I've never had, wanted, been interested in or needed subs. :confused:

Mains are short for main speakers.
 
The distance between the centres of my 'speakers is 67 inches, and to my listening position, a little more. But I'm used to sitting a little further back in the hall when attending classical concerts (cheaper seats!).
 


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