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Loudspeakers too far apart?

Nigel

Nigel

pfm Member
Reading the Sound fountain site, the page regarding loudspeaker set up. He suggests many listeners are guilty of using their loudspeakers too far apart and as a recommendation for smaller rooms, five and a half feet being perfectly adequate. Don't know how far you guys have between the loudspeakers but I think he might be on to something. I plead guilty but have since placed the speakers closer together, currently pleased with the results.
 
Nigel said:
Reading the Sound fountain site, the page regarding loudspeaker set up. He suggests many listeners are guilty of using their loudspeakers too far apart and as a recommendation for smaller rooms, five and a half feet being perfectly adequate. Don't know how far you guys have between the loudspeakers but I think he might be on to something. I plead guilty but have since placed the speakers closer together, currently pleased with the results.
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Who cares about the absolute distance? Angle is what one should be looking at.
 
I’ve had a quick look at the Sound Fountain recommendations and don’t agree with the first one for sure. He says

“A general rule is that the distance between speakers and listener(s) should be 1 1/2 times the distance between the speakers. ”

Since when is that a rule? Whose rule book? I’d suggest that the distance between speakers and listener should be the same as the distance between the speakers. As to the distance the speakers are apart (or away), minimum would probably be about 3 feet for small speakers, probably in a desktop type scenario. But 6 feet give or take a foot or two is a good range for anything larger. The further you are away from the speakers the more you are listening to the room, so I prefer as near-field as possible. I am always puzzled when I see pictures of peoples systems where the speakers are a long way from the listening seat yet close together. That’s mono not stereo!
 
Buy Get Better Sound, apply that method of locating speaker and listening position and you'll get it about as good as it's going to get.
 
The distance between me and the speakers is 2 x the between speaker distance at least, but I do have big ESLs in a longish rectangular room.

How can there be a 'golden rule' when most moving coil speakers have different properties and panel speakers are different again. The room, seating positions and space behind the listening chair/sofa all dictate their own distances.

'Suck it and see' ergonomics plus 'each to his own' taste preference are more apposite than any cock-eyed rule.
 
AndyU said:
But 6 feet give or take a foot or two is a good range for anything larger. The further you are away from the speakers the more you are listening to the room, so I prefer as near-field as possible!
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Well, he suggests five and a half feet as a starting point. I'm not so sure about the 1.5 times rule to the sitting position myself as well. Worth experimenting with though. It's as if you lose a little stereo soundstage but gain in cohesion. Did you read the snippet on the Fared Azima, Mission demonstration?
 
Nigel said:
Reading the Sound fountain site, the page regarding loudspeaker set up. He suggests many listeners are guilty of using their loudspeakers too far apart and as a recommendation for smaller rooms, five and a half feet being perfectly adequate. Don't know how far you guys have between the loudspeakers but I think he might be on to something. I plead guilty but have since placed the speakers closer together, currently pleased with the results.
Click to expand...

I have been an advocate of close placement of loudspeakers than the usual standard recommendation mainly for the reasons you have cited. I value cohesion and a feeling of togetherness over an expansive, wide and airy sound or presentation. In the end, it's down to a good balance between the two as you wouldn't want to lose too much airiness with close placement of speakers resulting in a presentation that's too closed or overly shut-in.

It also depends on the size or design of the speakers apart from the size (width) of the room. If the room is small, one cannot place the speakers too far apart. If the speakers are large, they won't sound too good if placed too close together. The five and a half feet probably applies to small to medium-sized speakers.

Currently my Harbeth SHL5 Plus speakers measure 6 feet 6.7 inches centre to centre of speakers in a huge living space. Most folks have theirs at 7 feet 2 inches to 8 feet apart but I prefer mine to be closer together for a more cohesive and dynamic presentation. The transients and dynamics in loud passages leap out more from a silent background when the speakers are closer together.

Apart from distance between speakers, there is also the distance of speakers from the front wall but let's not go there.
 
Surely distance apart is by itself a bit meaningless, you need a third dimension, namely distance to the listener.
It used to be said that the ideal was the same distance between speakers as from speakers to listener. However I've found my speakers are slightly better if I move them a bit closer together (although room layout constraints mean I can't now do that).
To my ears, the amount of 'toe-in' also makes a difference.
 
Mike Reed said:
How can there be a 'golden rule' when most moving coil speakers have different properties and panel speakers are different again. The room, seating positions and space behind the listening chair/sofa all dictate their own distances.

'Suck it and see' ergonomics plus 'each to his own' taste preference are more apposite than any cock-eyed rule.
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agree there's no one size fits all answer, but there are some principles to be followed based on room acoustics.
 
As close as possible to an equilateral triangle between speakers and listener is best IMO, certainly the best starting point. I really do not enjoy speakers too close together so the sound is just something happening ‘over there’ somewhere, and there is a point where the central image collapses when too far apart. There is a definite ‘right’ to be had.
 
About 5 feet for my arcs but I think there is no hard and fast rule , just place them where you like them best.
 
Soundstaging is the great glory of stereo - otherwise you might as well have a good mono speaker against a wall. A good system should be capable of generating images above and outside the boxes as well as giving a proper impression of depth - indeed the end wall of the room should ‘disappear’ as far as hearing is concerned. Creating a good sound field, such that instruments in an orchestra can be accurately placed, means distances to the back wall, the front wall and side walls are all important, not just the central triangle. Toe-in is critical with good speakers. There is little substitute for time and experimentation - would be great if you could get it right every time using a simple formula but hi-fi shows suggest that’s not going to happen. At the same time, measurements to fractions of an inch suggest a problem somewhere...
 
AndyU said:
The further you are away from the speakers the more you are listening to the room, so I prefer as near-field as possible. I am always puzzled when I see pictures of peoples systems where the speakers are a long way from the listening seat yet close together. That’s mono not stereo!
Click to expand...

I agree with AndyU above. Also an quadrilateral triangle as large as the room allows is a good starting point. When the setup is right then on good recordings the speakers almost disappear leaving only the sound-stage. It can become immersive (3-D Radioactivity by Kraftwerk is a great recording for such an experience if like them of course..:D:D).
 
An equilateral triangle approach does not give the best results in my system (see my earlier post). It's not that the image has a gap in the middle, rather that the central image tends to move about.
Maybe rock band singers do actually move about the stage while recording !
 
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