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Linn Majik sub-chassis vs kore vs Keel

retseldrib said:
The problem with non- linn products or even used linn products is getting someone to fit them.

Perhaps when i retire, building LP12s is something that I will look into but its just not a practical thing to do with my work load and I don’t want to risk breaking something like my new Lingo 4.

My spec is: Linn Sondek LP12 - 1981 Plinth, Karousel, Lingo 4, Ittok LVII, T-KABLE, AT-OC9XSH moving coil cart
So judging from the replies if i do upgrade again then it needs to be a bargain used Kore offset against the sale of my Majik sub-chassis. But even then, how much difference is there between the Majik and the Kore compared to used tonearm upgrade :D
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it depends where you live. Some Linn dealers will fit third party parts. There are also several highly competent people around too.
The LP12 group forum or the LP12 Lounge, both on Facebook would be good to join if you are not already a member there.
 
Miss Ariel said:
To add to the trampolin base as Nick from Wimbledon has said it's only for heavy surfaces.

Retseldrib if you have a baseboard and your LP 12 is on something small and light I would take it off.
Years ago in the 1980's my dealer lent me their LP12 as I wanted to hear the Karma.Theirs sounded fabulous and I got the Karma.
Mine was the same spec as theirs with vahalla and ittok.
It really sounded a bit off not as dynamic and open sounding as their dem one.I put it down to the Karma needing more run in.But after 50 hours on it i was a bit disappointed as no way did mine sound as good as theirs.
They came up for a listen and agreed and removed the base like on their dem one.

Hey presto ! it sounded great.I have had 2 more Linns since and always removed the baseboard.The sound to my ears is so much more open and dynamic.
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retseldrib said:
It seems that the Majik sub-chassis is the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck over previous LP12 sub-chassis’.
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Given the old sub-chassis design relied, rather bafflingly, on a few small wood screws to hold the arm board in place, the Majik is an obviously better solution. Once you have a single piece of metal between the bearing and the arm base you have reached the optimal solution. The Keel is just an expensive piece of jewelry and I am not convinced an aluminium arm board is better than the original item.
 
John Channing said:
Given the old sub-chassis design relied, rather bafflingly, on a few small wood screws to hold the arm board in place, the Majik is an obviously better solution. The Keel is just an expensive piece of jewelry and I am not convinced an aluminium arm board is better than the original item.
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You don't you feel an alloy armboard is better but the Majik subchassis is? Both just make things stuffer?
 
Mr Pig said:
You don't you feel an alloy armboard is better but the Majik subchassis is? Both just make things stuffer?
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Does it need to be stiffer? The chassis and arm board are not subjected to huge forces and the original arm board is more than stiff enough. The problem was how it was mounted to the sub-chassis.
 
It’s not just about stiffness, it’s about energy transmission.

which is why foam filling an arm tube sounds worse.
 
John Channing said:
Given the old sub-chassis design relied, rather bafflingly, on a few small wood screws to hold the arm board in place, the Majik is an obviously better solution.
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Yes, the "lossy" attachment of the armboard to the old liberty bell (sorry.... steel subchassis) was a classic example of serendipity. One flaw concealing another flaw. The Magic subchassis pretty much eliminated the need for the 3 little screws (other than just to align the armboard).
 
david ellwood said:
It’s not just about stiffness, it’s about energy transmission,
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Apologies for appearing to misquote you, David; the middle layer of my support above is a sorbathane feet isolation platform. To my hearing, the 3 layered support has really tightened the sound up to a very noticeable degree - Q. Would you say that the isolation platform with integral sorbothane feet is effectively doing the same job as a trampolin?
 
I’m not personally a fan of sorbothane, I’d be interested in how the sound changed for resiting the deck on a simple wallshelf or sound org table.
 
david ellwood said:
It’s not just about stiffness, it’s about energy transmission.

which is why foam filling an arm tube sounds worse.
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With a sub-chassis what energy are you suggesting it is transmitting? Where is the energy coming from and where is it going?

Any structure, no matter the material, shape, or size will resonate. You can change the frequency at which it will resonate and for how long (damping), but you cannot change the basic physics that objects will resonate. Look up Chladni plate, there are some interesting videos that help explain this.

Given none of the Linn sub-chassis designs are backed by any empirical data to support one being better than another (other than spending more means better, of course!) I would stick to the cheapest Majik option which from an engineering perspective has no obvious flaws.
 
I thought that the sub-chassis rigidity and interface with the arm was mainly intended to “reduce the loss of information” retrieved from the groove (the more rigid the better) and it is the suspension that is there to absorb any external vibrational energy (whatever the source). But what do I know, I only have a BSc (Hons) :). If anyone has an accurate “Layman’s” correction of the above I would be very interested.
 
John Channing said:
I have a PhD in physics...

Same question you didn't answer: what is the source of the energy and where are you hoping to transmit it?
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In a record player there are four main sources of energy, that generated by the motor, stylus , speakers, and general external sources such as passing cars.

Id have expected someone with a phd in physics to be able to come up with those unaided tbh.
 
retseldrib said:
At the risk of derailing my own thread - did you do the trampolin upgrade separately? Off out soon but must read through the “LP12 - Fire Away” thread.
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I have both, the baseboard and the Trampolin 2.

On a good wall shelf you can use the baseboard.

With other placements or glass shelves Trampolin 2 is better IME.

M.
 
I, for now, have removed my Trampolin & the air suspension of the rack & the deck is now sitting directly on the Towhshend audio rack. This has given a more robust & powerful bass.
Doubt this configuration will last tho'. Needs some kind of base & feet.
 
My 79 vintage deck is being upgraded as I type. All that will be original when it returns is the lid, plinth and top plate. This raises the question is it a '79 LP12 or '85is one because that is when the Ittok was added or a 2020s one with the Kore, Karosel, Lingo 4 and Trampolin 2 being fitted as I type?
Or is it better just to think of it as, just another of the many hybrid-aged LP12s around that have allowed long-time owners like me to end up with a mid-level Linn at somewhat less than the current retail price?
 
paulbysea said:
My 79 vintage deck is being upgraded as I type. All that will be original when it returns is the lid, plinth and top plate. This raises the question is it a '79 LP12 or '85is one because that is when the Ittok was added or a 2020s one with the Kore, Karosel, Lingo 4 and Trampolin 2 being fitted as I type?
Or is it better just to think of it as, just another of the many hybrid-aged LP12s around that have allowed long-time owners like me to end up with a mid-level Linn at somewhat less than the current retail price?
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If you’re being honest, it would be the later. The plinth, top plate and lid have all changed since 1979. Not sure the newer bits would make much of a difference sonically if the old bits are in good order and setup with them is done correctly.

I have a theory that an older aged plinth might perform better than one that is newer.
 
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