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Linn Majik sub-chassis vs kore vs Keel

retseldrib

retseldrib

pfm Member
Given how long these sub-chassis’ have been around for now there is surprisingly little documented experience from LP12 owners?

It seems people have gone from a pre Majik subchasis straight to a Kore for the most part. There is one person that I have found on another board that has gone from Majik to Kore. While he says how amazing it is he also makes the point that its not a night a day difference but subtle and noticeable over hours of playing. I have also spoken with two people who make up LP12s and they estimate that the Majik provides 80% of what the kore does for around a third of the price. The most noticeable jump is from Majik to Keel but the Keel is at least 8 times the cost of the Majik.

It seems that the Majik sub-chassis is the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck over previous LP12 sub-chassis’.

I would be very interested to hear from those who have experience of hearing the differences in these sub-chassis’.

REQUEST: with respect, can the replies be kept within the confines of the question please. Thank you.
 
When I was looking at alloy sub-chassis a year or so ago I found it very difficult to find definitive information as hardly anyone had done proper comparisons. Hardly surprising considering the cost, aggravation and variables involved in doing so. Another problem was the most people who upgrade their LP12s often get more than one thing changed at a time. They tend to get a few upgrades done together making it impossible to know what each part is contributing.

What I did find suggested that the various alloy chassis of similar configuration sound quite similar. There were differences but it sounded like they were minor. Which is kinda what you might expect I think.

Off the back of that I bought a Stack Audio Tenor because it was the cheapest alloy sub-chassis available and it could take a pre-Cirkus bearing. It's got a Cikus on it right now but I liked the option.

The relevance? I wouldn't even consider a Linn sub-chassis as I expect an aftermarket one would sound very similar at a much lower cost.
 
tpetsch said:
Wouldn't even consider because you "expect" ? ...That's hysterical!
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Yes, too much supposition without the evidence from an actual comparative audition. Same unfounded scepticism from the cable doubters!
But, back to the question...
Not compared the basic sub chassis against a Kore, but have auditioned a Kore against a Keel, and the difference was clear to hear, in terms of extra detail resolution, however I also think that the Kore provides a nice balance with the Lingo 4 LP12 itineration, and that if you then decide to go Keel, then this can lead to an audition of its similar level partner, the Radikal, and then things can get (relatively) costly, though many feel that the expenditure is justified.
If you’re happy with what you have, my advice would be not to audition the next level, unless you’re prepared for the inevitable!
These ‘upgrades’ are indeed, audible upgrades, and lesser itinerations, whilst being less costly, are also audibly compromised
Other turntables are available.
 
Thanks for the replies.

IF I was to upgrade in the future,I would only go for a Kore if it was used and then sell me my Majik sub-chassis to offset the used cost further. In my mind, this would be worth it for a minimal gain between the Majik and the Kore.

Notwithstanding, in the future who knows ..... so it would great to get as much experience with sub-chassis’ documented on this thread.
 
John said:
Do you have the Karousel bearing?
Click to expand...

I do.

I have only just upgraded to a lingo 4, T-Kable and new cart so not looking to upgrade anytime soon but given that I have a Majik subchassis the its the next logical upgrade when and if I do upgrade.

My Turntable is housed in an original fluted 1981 plinth (without the corner bracing) so aesthetically it would be nice to rehouse it with an excellent condition corner braced plinth, top plate with the additional fixing and trampolin - pretty sure that would be just an expensive cosmetic change though.
 
retseldrib said:
Thanks for the replies.

IF I was to upgrade in the future,I would only go for a Kore if it was used and then sell me my Majik sub-chassis to offset the used cost further. In my mind, this would be worth it for a minimal gain between the Majik and the Kore.

Notwithstanding, in the future who knows ..... so it would great to get as much experience with sub-chassis’ documented on this thread.
Click to expand...
I went from pre-Cirkus to Majik sub and did Cirkus at the same time. I then went from Majik to Kore but did Karousel at the same time. As has been stated previously it’s impossible to say what difference a subchassis makes if you change the bearing at the same time which is probably why there are so few reports out there. The Majik and Kore share the same actual pressed aluminium subchassis. The difference is that the Kore has a machined aluminium arm board bonded to the sub whereas the Majik has the standard laminated arm board screwed to it. The Majik was undoubtably the best value for money upgrade as it came free with the Cirkus upgrade kit. However the Kore undoubtably provides a stiffer more rigid connection between the arm and the subchassis. I think the Kore is the sweet spot and has been quoted as giving 80% of what a Keel does for at least a quarter of the price. I agree with you that a used Kore would be your best bet if you feel inclined but the Majik is no slouch. A Keel for me is just too much. I have other things to spend my money on. 3rd party kit might be better value if you can demo them but for me I would “Expect” the SQ differences to be marginal and Linn kit will hold its value.
 
I currently have 2 LP12s (long story) and have compared 1990s pre-Majik sub with Kore and Keel, plus Cirkus and Karousel.

I'd say the old sub was much more of a weak point than the Cirkus bearing, so going to Kore (or an equivalent third party choice) makes sense. Keel seems more detailed & neutral than Kore, but the move to Karousel is better VFM.

I am also not a Trampolin fan unless the LP12 is on a sideboard or book case. No base works at least as well if on a 'light and rigid' support like a wall shelf, and rival bases seem a tad better. I have the SRM base & platform for my old LP12, but the Tangerine Skorpion on my 'new' Stiletto LP12 is another step up (though of course the Stiletto means you have also replaced the Linn top plate)..

Also, Radikal beats Lingo 4, but costs more and takes more space. L4 beats L1 (or earlier choices) by at least as much.

Good luck
 
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retseldrib said:
Given how long these sub-chassis’ have been around for now there is surprisingly little documented experience from LP12 owners?

It seems people have gone from a pre Majik subchasis straight to a Kore for the most part. There is one person that I have found on another board that has gone from Majik to Kore. While he says how amazing it is he also makes the point that its not a night a day difference but subtle and noticeable over hours of playing. I have also spoken with two people who make up LP12s and they estimate that the Majik provides 80% of what the kore does for around a third of the price. The most noticeable jump is from Majik to Keel but the Keel is at least 8 times the cost of the Majik.

It seems that the Majik sub-chassis is the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck over previous LP12 sub-chassis’.

I would be very interested to hear from those who have experience of hearing the differences in these sub-chassis’.

REQUEST: with respect, can the replies be kept within the confines of the question please. Thank you.
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Not quite the answer to your question but I went from standard (Cirkus) subchassis to (used) Kore and that was the biggest single jump I’ve made with my LP12 apart from the Karousel I think. Certainly bigger than Kore -> Keel.
 
retseldrib said:
I do.

I have only just upgraded to a lingo 4, T-Kable and new cart so not looking to upgrade anytime soon but given that I have a Majik subchassis the its the next logical upgrade when and if I do upgrade.

My Turntable is housed in an original fluted 1981 plinth (without the corner bracing) so aesthetically it would be nice to rehouse it with an excellent condition corner braced plinth, top plate with the additional fixing and trampolin - pretty sure that would be just an expensive cosmetic change though.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a setup you could enjoy for a very long time. I’m curious what Linn will be introducing in April for the 50th Anniversary LP12.
 
retseldrib said:
Given how long these sub-chassis’ have been around for now there is surprisingly little documented experience from LP12 owners?

It seems people have gone from a pre Majik subchasis straight to a Kore for the most part. There is one person that I have found on another board that has gone from Majik to Kore. While he says how amazing it is he also makes the point that its not a night a day difference but subtle and noticeable over hours of playing. I have also spoken with two people who make up LP12s and they estimate that the Majik provides 80% of what the kore does for around a third of the price. The most noticeable jump is from Majik to Keel but the Keel is at least 8 times the cost of the Majik.

It seems that the Majik sub-chassis is the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck over previous LP12 sub-chassis’.

I would be very interested to hear from those who have experience of hearing the differences in these sub-chassis’.

REQUEST: with respect, can the replies be kept within the confines of the question please. Thank you.
Click to expand...

In terms of VFM a used Kore may be a fair option. However that would also buy you a new Stack Alto sub & arm-board ( this is what I have supporting a Karousel bearing). that is somewhat better than a Kore IMHO. So I would keep an open mind and if you don't mind considering 3rd party alternatives then the likes of Stack, Tangerine and Sole may indeed be well worth considering.
 
Kore and Lingo seem to have the better VfM in the actual range. Karousel and Trampolin 2 are mandatory IMO.

When I auditioned the Keel years ago I was quite underwhelmed (metallic sound ...).

M.
 
The problem with non- linn products or even used linn products is getting someone to fit them.

Perhaps when i retire, building LP12s is something that I will look into but its just not a practical thing to do with my work load and I don’t want to risk breaking something like my new Lingo 4.

My spec is: Linn Sondek LP12 - 1981 Plinth, Karousel, Lingo 4, Ittok LVII, T-KABLE, AT-OC9XSH moving coil cart
So judging from the replies if i do upgrade again then it needs to be a bargain used Kore offset against the sale of my Majik sub-chassis. But even then, how much difference is there between the Majik and the Kore compared to used tonearm upgrade :D
 
To add to the trampolin base as Nick from Wimbledon has said it's only for heavy surfaces.

Retseldrib if you have a baseboard and your LP 12 is on something small and light I would take it off.
Years ago in the 1980's my dealer lent me their LP12 as I wanted to hear the Karma.Theirs sounded fabulous and I got the Karma.
Mine was the same spec as theirs with vahalla and ittok.
It really sounded a bit off not as dynamic and open sounding as their dem one.I put it down to the Karma needing more run in.But after 50 hours on it i was a bit disappointed as no way did mine sound as good as theirs.
They came up for a listen and agreed and removed the base like on their dem one.

Hey presto ! it sounded great.I have had 2 more Linns since and always removed the baseboard.The sound to my ears is so much more open and dynamic.
 
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