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Linn LP12 vs Digital

Good Afternoon All,

I think there are maybe a number of reasons why vinyl continues to exist but then there are those that believe you need a pre-amplifier to feed a power amplifier.

I wasn't convinced of the latter and sold my NAC52/ Supercap.

I've just sold my LP12 (Keel/ EKOS MkII/ Krystal/ Radikal/ Urika II). Yes I could have upgraded it with a Karousel, Radikal 2, Ekos SE and Ekstatik but I'm not convinced the money invested would have put me ahead of what the Linn Klimax Hub/ 10 channel Akurate Exactbox is delivering. Keeping my fingers crossed that Linn produce a version of Organik to fit the Akurate Exactbox.............................

Regards

Richard
 
As you clearly have an open mind, you may wish to try a better turntable. Offerings from Well Tempered and Funk Firm would be a good place to start .
 
I love vinyl, especially with some specific recordings but digital streaming is so mature now that I don’t feel I miss anything at all hence I tend to be 70% digital streaming and the rest other formats.
 
Tony L said:
Mastering > format. Always.
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I disagree. Not because the production of the recording is not importaint but because it is something I have no control over. I buy the music I want to hear and have to deal with the recording quality.

For that reason, I prefer a format that can give satisfying and musical results even when faced with less than great mastering. Both digital and vinyl can be good at this but vinyl is inherently better at it.

If yo have a system which only sounds good on well mastered music then you have a system which chooses the music you play. That's not acceptable to me.
 
deserter said:
As you clearly have an open mind, you may wish to try a better turntable. Offerings from Well Tempered and Funk Firm would be a good place to start .
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I've heard many TTs in my system against the LP12, probably about 15, none of them made we want to sell it. The WT Amadeus and Phonosophie P3 were it's equal but not better, to me.
 
Mr Pig said:
If yo have a system which only sounds good on well mastered music then you have a system which chooses the music you play. That's not acceptable to me.
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That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just prepared to do a bit of research before buying a classic title to see which masterings are favoured, which remasters are horrendous etc. Obviously with a brand new release you get what you get, but say you want a 1960s or 70s rock or jazz album chances are there are many, many masterings available in the market. I see no point in buying the bad ones! It always amazes me to see folk who have often invested the price of a family car into replay equipment just be content with the first copy they find of a classic album. In the jazz world it is even worse as the market is flooded with out of copyright pirates etc that have never been anywhere near a master tape and are at best a copy of a CD though can in some cases be taken from cassettes, mp3s, YouTube videos etc!

I’ve spent a lifetime curating my collection. To be honest it is the reason I’m a record dealer. I realised back when I was at school that some copies of an album sounded *way* better than others and have always compared records whenever I find duplicates. This carries through to the CD era, some masterings are just laughably better than others. The craze for very loud compressed remastering in the late-90s and early 2000s being exhibit A. Just horrible stuff. If you can be arsed with hi-fi at all it is crazy not to buy good source material.

PS I’m not suggesting letting your hi-fi choose the music for you, just to realise that say you want to listen to The The’s Soul Mining not all masters are equal at all. Some are stunning, some pretty dreadful.
 
windhoek said:
All the things that made you like the LP12 in the first place are still there - it's you that's changed. One of my greatest realisations is that I'm the weakest link in my system and by the sounds of it, so are you :)

The other thing to consider is that there's isn't a war between your vinyl and digital systems. That's all in your head as well. I say enjoy it for a while and review things in a year from now. You've paid your money so spend your time wisely and enjoy it ;)
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That is an interesting perspective! Thank you. I’d say though one thing has changed - the DAC. With the Lampi DHT in the chain, most album sounds better than LP12. The one that doesn’t it’s due to the mastering.

I don’t have to make my vinyl playback sound like digital tbh. What I’m seeking is to gain similar enjoyment. Now that the digital is giving me more emotional involvement, I want similar involvement with my vinyl playback. And that IMO will happen if the analog sound can be made a little bit more open, airy, and better microdynamics. I understand that they’ll never sound the same.
 
Tony L said:
I’m just prepared to do a bit of research before buying a classic title to see which masterings are favoured, which remasters are horrendous etc.
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Yeah, but I've already got more records than I will play in my lifetime. I want those to work.
 
I grew up with digital. I’m well versed in music server and streaming technology. I spent years obsessively tweaking and perfecting each and every parameter of digital music server: router, switch, network isolation, linear power supply, better DC cable, carefully chosen low noise parts for server, optimized usb output, hand tweaked OS parameters, and numerous others. And I was proud. But I was humbled how good LP12 sounded out of the box (granted my DAC was mediocre). But all that changed when I put the Lampizator in the chain. My server started showing its potential.

I do not have any nostalgia associated with vinyl. No loyalty to a specific format. The reason I started in the analog path is the inconvenience. Yes, that’s right. The super convenience of digital streaming wouldn’t let me listen to a full song completely sometimes let alone an album. I was too trigger happy. I’ve been discovering hidden gems in albums that I’ve not paid much attention before. I now listen to a whole album end to end. I honestly don’t remember when was the last time I did that.

I don’t need vinyl to sound as good as my digital. Difference is good. But at its present state, the emotional involvement is a bit high with digital that I’d like to replicate with my analog playback.

My music taste is all over the place genre wise and mastering quality is also all over. Hence a more transparent, open sound works better across all music I listen to. Hence my question if a direct drive table like Technics SL-1000R would serve me better than Klimax Level LP12.
 
Radiohead99 said:
Hence my question if a direct drive table like Technics SL-1000R would serve me better than Klimax Level LP12.
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Probably not. The emotional 'human' connection is something the LP12 is particularly good at. But it's also worth understanding that greater 'quality', or resolution, does not automatically increase emotional involvement and can actually make it worse. There are plenty of turntables which deliver more detail than the LP12 but not all are so involving. Even the LP12 can be less fun if the wrong upgrade or cartridge is employed.

It's a very fine balance.
 
Radiohead99 said:
I am willing to spend money on LP12 upgrades. But is it possible that LP12 (or suspended turntable for that matter) will never sound that open, uncolored, agile, and airy? I think my LP12 sounds very organic and musical. But the midrange thickness is pervasive regardless of the recording and its flat sounding on busy music is the biggest issue I want to improve on.
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What you are hearing are some of the basic traits of the LP12. Some don't hear thickness etc. and love what you describe as the organic sound of LP12. Others cannot get away from the "thickness" and "lack or "air" you mention and try to eliminate it. In my experience (I own an LP12), whilst you can improve the beast, you cannot completely eliminate the traits that you appear not to like. I also know that improving an LP12 is a very expensive pass time!

Before spending money on your Linn, I suggest you listen to some other turntables, as replacing your Linn may get you where you want to be and at a much lower cost. Try a Rega Planar 10, as it is possible that it has the sort of sound that you like. To my ears, the Rega is more open and uncoloured that the Linn (I have both TTs in my listening room right now!), and it will cost you far less to trade your Linn for one than upgrading the Linn.
 
Mr Pig said:
Probably not. The emotional 'human' connection is something the LP12 is particularly good at. But it's also worth understanding that greater 'quality', or resolution, does not automatically increase emotional involvement and can actually make it worse. There are plenty of turntables which deliver more detail than the LP12 but not all are so involving. Even the LP12 can be less fun if the wrong upgrade or cartridge is employed.

It's a very fine balance.
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An LP12 is essentially a mechanical device. It has no intentions, it has no consciousness. It simply does no do human connection.
Obviously you like the noises it makes and prefer those noises to some other noises. But that is really all there is to say. Increasing emotional involvement is not a property of said mechanical device.
 
Octavian said:
An LP12 is essentially a mechanical device. It has no intentions, it has no consciousness. It simply does no do human connection.
Obviously you like the noises it makes and prefer those noises to some other noises. But that is really all there is to say. Increasing emotional involvement is not a property of said mechanical device.
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Have you been listening to Hawkwind??? ;)

 
I’ve just spent a pleasant 30 minutes listening to Radio Paradise, they’ve just played side two of Abbey Road in it’s entirety. I have this on vinyl & CD yet found this rendering very diverting, at no point did I think, “I bet this sounds better on vinyl”. The whole vinyl/digital debate is utter nonsense & you certainly don’t need a £20k TT to enjoy music.
 
A friend of mine has the lampizator trp and it sounds fantastic , i use an audionote dac sig 2.1 , ive heard both in my friends system and the lampizator is definitely better sounding , very analogue , in fact i would say it would equal most turntable arm cartridge combinations out there , i think the differences
that your hearing are down to the recording /mastering quality , phil.
 
Woodface said:
I’ve just spent a pleasant 30 minutes listening to Radio Paradise, they’ve just played side two of Abbey Road in it’s entirety. I have this on vinyl & CD yet found this rendering very diverting, at no point did I think, “I bet this sounds better on vinyl”. The whole vinyl/digital debate is utter nonsense & you certainly don’t need a £20k TT to enjoy music.
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Afaik Bill at RP EQ's at least the bass on the songs played on there
 
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