Yawn
Linn bloody Linn
- Thread starter d16b
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
I fully understand your anger. In today’s environment of impending climate collapse anything as fundamentally simple as a hi-fi amplifier that can’t be repaired pretty much indefinitely is an irresponsible piece of shit IMHO. Just avoid it. There are far better options.
I find real enjoyment in bringing classic audio back into use. This is what folk should do IMO. So much choice out there of highly respected kit with circuit diagrams and service data in the public domain. Most can be kept running for the price of a handful of electrolytic capacitors every 20 years or so. It is painful enough seeing computers, smartphones etc hit landfill due to lack of serviceability and obsolescence, there is zero excuse for an amplifier to end up there.
AudioAl
pfm Member
Yay , Well said Tony , With you all the way on that one .
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
Your lucky that you don't own a CD12. Many Pi**ed off people, good for doorstops.
I have more macs than I know what to do with, I keep them running.
I have a IBM ThinkPad that is endlessly repairable and current if I use Linux.
Apple now makes it's own chips and boards can't be upgraded and repaired.
Odd that it seems Linn is doing the same...
I regret getting rid of my FAMCO Nuance preamp, my Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck, my P8000 but, I can't argue that powerfully driven Linn Katan's (Active) with a Sizmik make a system that causes jaws to drop.
Helen Bach
if it ain't Baroque ...
talking of old computers, mine is a defo 'Triggers brush'. 4 or 5 replaced mother boards, 3 power supplies, 4 or 5 'Audiophile' bidirectional audio boards, video board and five hard discs (now being replaced with SSD's) and numerous keyboards. Running the latest Ubuntu software, beautifully. But my hifi kit has been running 13+ years, pain-free (no Linn stuff, except two arms and a cartridge body (to be fair the arms are Jelco and the cartridge Audio Technica).
I was told by Linn that 5103's are door stops that just don't know they are dead. Same with DS and soon to be joined by Akurat.
given their costs, the life expectancy of good old high end UK kit it is now like phoning Ratners and moaning about a gold necklace.
Best turntable I have even (not heard) Nottingham Analoge Spacedeck, on a granite block on my hearth, Space arm, either AT OC9 or Denon 110.
Genuinely the wall disappeared and I was listening to the musicians playing from next doors garden.
Welcome to the Pleasure Dome was mind blowing.
Then this idiot traded it for a Sondek
Beobloke
pfm Member
So, you're saying that every electrical failure in a piece of audio equipment is immediately obvious on opening the lid?
You clearly haven't done many electrical repairs in your time!
I don't much care. They are analogies. Anyone can pick holes in analogies.
At the end of the day some things wear out. Yes, even butchers' knives. TVs used to have CRTs. When they failed, game over. It's nothing new. Hifi has just had an easy ride because until quite recently they were really simple machines (yes, really simple machines, sorry, we have been spun a line about "precision engineering" for decades and the penny still hasn't dropped). If you want to see precision engineering, take the back off a digital watch, a mobile phone or a laptop. Then imagine repairing it on a component level. Then look in a "precision engineered" LP12. Or Nait 2.
Hifi components are now less simple as computers are finding their way in. Just like cars. Any halfbaked mechanic can fix points and carbs, I did plenty of it in my youth. You had to. Try repairing an ECU without specialist kit.
However you or I are free to carry on with stuff made prior to 1990 or thereabouts. We can have it repaired, just as we can buy a 1950 BSA M20 and enjoy happy evenings in the workshop rewinding magnetos and rebuilding carburettors. Again. Ooh, lovely, pass the quarter Whitworth, I'm just going to nip up the front brake cable a tad. Or we can accept progress and like me with my 200k mile car that is a million miles better than anything I have ever owned before we can accept that the price of progress is that there is less daily oiling and adjusting but the occasional catastrophic failure towards end of life.
I'm not suggesting that we should be buying disposable sealed box hifi, but I don't agree that we should continue to expect to be able to repair everything 50 years after it's been built, regardless of the fault that presents itself. There's a happy medium.
Beobloke
pfm Member
Yes, I am pretty mechanically minded, actually, and all of those checks are blindingly obvious things that one checks on a regular basis. However, lifting the bonnet and peering under it really didn't work when the problem turned out to be worn friction linings in my gearbox or a short-circuited alternator. For those you either need someone who knows the internals in-depth, or the right test gear - just like when hi-fi stops working.
Hence my point that peering under a car bonnet or under the lid of a piece of hi-fi equipment might tell you a certain amount, but the issues aren't always blindingly obvious, even if there are certain people who think that changing capacitors solves everything.
How on earth do you get so many failures? It can't be 30 years old! Even if those things failed every 5 years it would still take 20+ years to get there. My PC is 13 years old. OK, it's now getting creaky, but it's all original.
Very much like my failed crankshaft pulley. You don't get a warning, and no amount of inspection short of spending 2 hours dismantling it to examine the individual components will tell you that it's about to fail. The belt looks as new, there were no noises, it ran perfectly. Then I pulled into the services and turned it off, when I resterted the heavy load of power steering plus alternator plus water pump just tore it apart. It's in 2 bits, both halves look totally normal but the central rubber damper has just been torn apart. You cant see this until it fails.
I wouldn't buy Linn electronics, just wouldn't. Their attitude to long term servicing has been well known for decades, they were like this thirty years ago, so what can you say? It's like buying a Bugatti then complaining the servicing is expensive.
This is just the model they want to persue. Buy new product rather than fixing old ones. Not something I want to support so I try to buy things that can be fixed. My amps are forty years old, have been serviced twice and still sound good. Wouldn't buy any of Naim's new unfixable kit either, they can piss off too.
This is just the model they want to persue. Buy new product rather than fixing old ones. Not something I want to support so I try to buy things that can be fixed. My amps are forty years old, have been serviced twice and still sound good. Wouldn't buy any of Naim's new unfixable kit either, they can piss off too.
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Tony L
Administrator
For something as fundamentally simple and old-technology as a hi-fi amp I feel it should be serviceable indefinitely. I have a pair of Leak TL-12 Plus valve amps in one system that date from around 1957-8, they sound better than most things on the market today, and they are simple enough I restored them myself.
Yes, I replaced every resistor and capacitor, and also found a nice set of valves (some small signal valves are original to the amps, they last for ages). They are not doing badly for an amp that is heading towards 70 years old. With this rebuild they are good for at least another 20. No reason they can’t make it over a century. Just an amp, nothing complex here.
In my other systems I use Quad 303s, both fairly early ones from the late-60s, and another amp that came with a full schematic enclosed in the user manual. Solid, reliable, fixable. Same story. They will just keep on going if serviced every 20 years or so. No built in obsolescence. No firmware lock-in. No manufacturer-dictated closed-shop service network. No enforced leasing model.
You’ve hit the nail on the head, companies can’t make money out of people like you. There has to be a degree of obsolescence. Linn are different company to what they were but they still support products above the average I’d say.
Do we know that new naim gear can’t be serviced/repaired?
Thankfully there are lots of choices out there.
I think we have to accept that point to point wiring is not coming back. The Leak gear is great but not everyone wants valves, what if you need more power?For something as fundamentally simple and old-technology as a hi-fi amp I feel it should be serviceable indefinitely. I have a pair of Leak TL-12 Plus valve amps in one system that date from around 1957-8, they sound better than most things on the market today, and they are simple enough I restored them myself.
Yes, I replaced every resistor and capacitor, and also found a nice set of valves (some small signal valves are original to the amps, they last for ages). They are not doing badly for an amp that is heading towards 70 years old. With this rebuild they are good for at least another 20. No reason they can’t make it over a century. Just an amp, nothing complex here.
In my other systems I use Quad 303s, both fairly early ones from the late-60s, and another amp that came with a full schematic enclosed in the user manual. Solid, reliable, fixable. Same story. They will just keep on going if serviced every 20 years or so. No built in obsolescence. No firmware lock-in. No manufacturer-dictated closed-shop service network. No enforced leasing model.
I think 20 years is a decent lifespan for electronics, sometimes things just become uneconomic to repair.
I have no idea how long a streamer could last but it’s a legitimate product that there is demand for. We have to accept that not everyone is like us, people like new things.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
You can change capacitors, lasers and belts … not necessarily user serviceable but then I pay other people to service my car.
I understand the frustrations of the OP but there are options. I’d call Peter Tyson’s or Kevin Green, both are very, very good with old Linn kit and if it can be fixed, they will fix it… usually it can.
I used to do it but have taken a step back due to health issues and time constraints.
Tony L
Administrator
I view a streamer as a totally different product class. By nature it can’t help but be a computer. An amplifier can. It is technology that was all but perfected before most of us were even born. There is no excuse beyond the destructive excesses of capitalism to make an amplifier a throwaway device. It is like building obsolescence into a hammer. It just doesn’t need to be there. It is only placed there by a marketing department and I would encourage people to just walk away from such products as there is real choice here.
PS I’m not saying vintage kit is the only way, there are many new models built using simple tried and tested technology. My Verdier preamp is only about 10-15 years old and that shipped with a full schematic as is very easily understood. Fully serviceable to the extent I can do it myself.