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life in a PRAT-less world ?

positive_energy said:
Hey, well done... eBay is weird sometimes. You sold a used 20x for more than a new one costs at analogue-seduction et. al.
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Do analogue-seduction ship to south korea, denmark and indonesia ? You have to remember that ebay is a worldwide shop and to many people uk RRP prices will be completely meaningless. In many parts of the world you just can't get a DV20x so even new or used is irrelevant.... you take what you can !

That said, they were ~£440 for some time so not sure what has prompted the price drop.
 
lotus340r said:
So the question is, has anyone else migrated to a PRATless world and found happiness. Did you think it was a big change and what do you think you gained and what do you think you lost (if anything) ? :)
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I never bought into all that flat earth PRAT bullshit in the first place. THUS I WIN.
 
lotus340r said:
Do analogue-seduction ship to south korea, denmark and indonesia ? You have to remember that ebay is a worldwide shop and to many people uk RRP prices will be completely meaningless. In many parts of the world you just can't get a DV20x so even new or used is irrelevant.... you take what you can !

That said, they were ~£440 for some time so not sure what has prompted the price drop.
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Yes, they ship worldwide. They are also cheaper still in Japan so I guess people in indonesia may like to buy there....
 
I used to hang around my friend's store from 1985 until 2000, when I moved. He sold Naim, Arcam, Quad, Meridian, Linn, and Kef mostly. He did something beautifully simple. He went out and bought other leading stereo brands so customers could hear the difference. Mostly amps and CD players, brands included Bryston, Denon, and so on. In most cases, the guy off the street could hear the difference, and in most cases, Naim sounded better. Forget Prat and everything else, just listen and you can tell what you like better.
 
The_Hawk said:
I used to hang around my friend's store from 1985 until 2000, when I moved. He sold Naim, Arcam, Quad, Meridian, Linn, and Kef mostly. He did something beautifully simple. He went out and bought other leading stereo brands so customers could hear the difference. Mostly amps and CD players, so you could hear a Bryston amp versus a Naim amp, or a Denon CDP or whatever. In most cases, the guy off the street could hear the difference, and in most cases, Naim sounded better. Forget Prat and everything else, just listen and you can tell what you like better.
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Spot on. I'll leave the flat earth approach to the others thanks.
 
PR&T is just another label for emotion, involvement, groove, drive or swing. No one brand has it exclusively and it's pretty much meaningless in the big scheme of things since it means different things to different folks.

Some folks will deny it since it's politically incorrect in some of these internet forums but I guarantee if you strip away whatever level you're used to getting from your kit, you won't be happy listening to your rig for much longer.
 
dave said:
Some folks will deny it since it's politically incorrect in some of these internet forums but I guarantee if you strip away whatever level you're used to getting from your kit, you won't be happy listening to your rig for much longer.
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I think that's a good way of putting it. Some people need more of it than others. One of my points though is the more you need, the more though the sound deviates from reality (although I accept that Hifi is a ridiculous compromise as any level). Also, when equipment is attuned to pronounce more of it, you seem to lose out in other areas such as resolution, tone and depth. Maybe its the way electronics works ... you can't have everything as it were.

I'd like to hear a system that is completely devoid of it.

I once heard a quad 606 with some quad pre and I seem to remember that being completely prat-less. We are talking over 20 years ago now though.
 
dave said:
PR&T is just another label for emotion, involvement, groove, drive or swing.
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So nothing that Spock would get.

evil-spock.jpg
 
Rich- Funny you should mention resolution, tone and depth. None of those are exactly a strength of Naim (olive anyway) but switching back and forth between my SB Touch (which has RT&D in spades) and my CDS2 which doesn't, I always drift back to the CDS. This old legacy device isn't the most refined or extended puppy on the block but it satisfies in a way the SB just can't. The Touch sounds mechanical and contrived by comparison no matter the program source. Forget you've got a better source component though and it may be the best VFM out there right now.

regards,

dave
 
Dudes,

Spock has emotions. They're just normally suppressed.

[YOUTUBE]vaKS13QM4-M[/YOUTUBE]

Joe
 
Dave,

I could see him doin' The Safety Dance.
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So close, yet not what you expected.


(Sorry, I've Trekked another thread.)

Joe
 
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Some people want to analyse music and derive a cerebral experience from music, others want to be moved by it.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

It's a free world.

As long as people recognise that it is possible to select a combination of components capable of doing either and acknowledge their own personal choice then there is no real argument.

Conflicts arise when people attempt to deny such freedom of choice or suggest that it is just an illusion.
 
Steven Toy said:
Some people want to analyse music and derive a cerebral experience from music, others want to be moved by it.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

It's a free world.

As long as people recognise that it is possible to select a combination of components capable of doing either and acknowledge their own personal choice then there is no real argument.

Conflicts arise when people attempt to deny such freedom of choice or suggest that it is just an illusion.
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Exactly...if you get your kicks with how much (or how little) bass, treble or imaging is coming out of a device, I have no problem with that. I simply don't understand why some have a problem with those of us needing an alternative.
 
When I first replaced a troika with an OC9 in my lp12/ekos I thought I'd made a huge mistake - the loss of 'slam' or 'boggie' was so apparent - but I soon got over it when I became aware of all the amazing detail, the black silence and haunting ambiance that I had never heard before - since then I've been gradually enjoying moving away from unmodified Naim ampilfication, with similar benefits.
 
I know what you mean, I have been a Naim user for 13 years and in the last 2 months I tried even more higher end Naim in the house along with several upgrade power supplies. I was almost going to buy a 202/200 when I had the opportunity to try a Luxman 505u in the house up against the 202/200 combo. Well the 202/20 went back in the box and Lux stayed in the rack and is now owned by me.

I have never witnessed imaging like this and they way instruments pan across the soundstage is awesome, I never had this ex[erience with the Naim, well not to this level.

Moving from Naim has certainly opened my eyes and ears, the Lux is a wonderful piece of kit. And as for PRaT theres plenty of that on tap!

LH
 
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