Lib Dems - Tories in Disguise

[maxflinn]

'Centrist' Heidi Allen:

Consistently voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas

Voted against investigations into the Iraq war

Generally voted against more EU integration

Consistently voted for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU

Generally voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK

Generally voted against UK membership of the EU

Consistently voted for military action against ISIL (Daesh)

Generally voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability

Generally voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits

Almost always voted against a lower voting age

Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system

Almost always voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules

Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities

Consistently voted against measures to prevent climate change

Voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods

 

[deanf]

^ Ooh, it reads just like the LibDem manifesto!

 

[Brian]

In fairness Heidi Allen was always way too bright to be a Tory and appears to have a functional moral compass too. She was always in the wrong party. I’m far more comfortable with her in the Lib Dems than some of the other Tory defectors, in fact I think she’d make a far better Lib Dem leader than Swinson (though not as good as Moran).

Her voting record looks like her moral compass is in need of a service, assuming it exists at all.

She’s moved from one nasty party to another, difference being the tories don’t try to disguise it anymore.

 

[Tony L]

Haters gonna hate, but I bet if she was leader of the Labour party it would be polling rather better than it is currently under ‘Captain Unelectable’ Corbyn!

 

[ks.234]

...though, maybe, just maybe, if Labour hadn’t been such aimless, directionless incoherent crap for the past three years we wouldn’t be having this conversation and stopping Brexit would still be possible. An electable opposition at time of national crisis should be a given, but sadly not this time!

And maybe if the LD’s hadn’t gone so dizzy at the first slight sniff of power they got in 2010, we wouldn’t have had Brexit at all

And maybe if Swinson had joined the SNP/Green/Lab coalescence to stop No Deal that would be more successful.

Labour has had very clear aims and direction for more than 3 years.

If you want an opposition to be electable, then the logical thing is to do all you can to elect it. For me to sit here slagging off the LD’s for all their shortcomings is one thing, but to then slag them off for being unelectable because I won’t vote for them, is nonsensical

 

[ks.234]

Haters gonna hate, but I bet if she was leader of the Labour party it would be polling rather better than it is currently under ‘Captain Unelectable’ Corbyn!

The LDs are doing nicely in the polls, but only by becoming more and more like the Tories and giving more and more Tories a fanfare welcome day by day.

If you want an opposition to the Tories in more than name only, the LDs quite clearly ain’t it

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Haters gonna hate, but I bet if she was leader of the Labour party it would be polling rather better than it is currently under ‘Captain Unelectable’ Corbyn!

Don’t forget, he’s ‘unelectable’ largely because the right wing media disses him at every opportunity, and ignores him when he says and does things the people might get behind. Have you not noticed how he tends to get the better of Johnson at PMQs? Does that not suggest there might be more to him than the media wants you to see?

 

[stephen bennett]

The fact that the UK prefers this man as PM

Extinction Rebellion: Johnson calls climate crisis activists 'uncooperative crusties'

(While at a launch of a biography on Thatcher) to Corbyn says a lot about this country.

I saw the protest on C4 news. There were teachers, grandparents, doctors and lawyers there, all making a statement about how worried they were about their childrens' future.

Stephen

 

[Tony L]

The LDs are doing nicely in the polls, but only by becoming more and more like the Tories and giving more and more Tories a fanfare welcome day by day.

If you want an opposition to the Tories in more than name only, the LDs quite clearly ain’t it

I largely agree with that, and I don’t welcome all their new recruits by any stretch (though I do quite like Heidi Allen), but by saying that there are a lot of Labour MPs I view as a lot worse, so really it is a pretty useless barometer. The simple reality is that we don’t have anything to get excited about in our politics at present. It is all reheated fail to some extent. The difference between us is you appear to be an enthused Labour activist and supporter, whereas I reluctantly gravitate towards the LDs as do not want either the ugly hard-right English nationalism of the Tories or the obsolete 1970s trade unionism and radical student tax and spend politics of Captain Unelectable. Like millions I’m just lost in the middle somewhere. None of the above please, or if you really insist I’ll pick the LDs as they’ve been right on Brexit and are likely the least damaging to small business!

 

[The Far North]

We're in a 2 stage process for the future, but we don't reach the second stage if the parties refuse to work together. https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1181213640189530112

Both Labour and the Lib Dems need to grow up. Who leads a temporary govt that will be in office for just a matter of days is not the key issue. What matters is getting this Tory government out, securing an extension and then having a General Election ASAP.

 

[Brian]

Haters gonna hate, but I bet if she was leader of the Labour party it would be polling rather better than it is currently under ‘Captain Unelectable’ Corbyn!

That may or may not be true, but what is definitely true is her voting record is abysmal.

Roll on the GE then all will be revealed.

 

[Tony L]

Indeed. My bet is we’ll end up pretty much where we are now with Tories largest party but well short of a majority.

Farage will decide this one, not the LDs. It all depends on the damage he does in Labour ‘leave’ areas and whether he splits the Tory vote. The Tories have already lost the moderates, and Labour have already lost the ‘remainers’, so really the LDs are just picking up what the two main parties have deliberately cast aside.

 

[sean99]

Good point made on this twitter thread by the very insightful Phil Syrpis regarding whether Corbyn should want to lead a caretaker government following a successful VoNC

https://mobile.twitter.com/syrpis/status/1179435456624234496

"Moreover, I don't think that Corbyn should want it to be Corbyn. The caretaker PM will be painted by Johnson as the face of the remainer Parliament, the leader of the coup that sought to stop Brexit."

"If it is Corbyn, it will be easy for Johnson to direct all the vitriol his way. I think Johnson's task becomes much harder if, eg, it is moderate respected Tory rebel who asks for an extension and calls a GE."

 

[Tim Jones]

'Centrist' Heidi Allen:

Consistently voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas

Voted against investigations into the Iraq war

Generally voted against more EU integration

Consistently voted for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU

Generally voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK

Generally voted against UK membership of the EU

Consistently voted for military action against ISIL (Daesh)

Generally voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability

Generally voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits

Almost always voted against a lower voting age

Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system

Almost always voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules

Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities

Consistently voted against measures to prevent climate change

Voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods

I'm willing to bet that every one of those voting decisions, in context, with evidence and (especially) as compared to a worse-option, is completely understandable.

It may not be palatable to this forum's Putin puppet, whose anti-liberalism has been allowed to thrive on this forum for at least three years, but then he's never actually faced a difficult decision in his life.

 

[roman]

Good point made on this twitter thread by the very insightful Phil Syrpis regarding whether Corbyn should want to lead a caretaker government following a successful VoNC

https://mobile.twitter.com/syrpis/status/1179435456624234496

"Moreover, I don't think that Corbyn should want it to be Corbyn. The caretaker PM will be painted by Johnson as the face of the remainer Parliament, the leader of the coup that sought to stop Brexit."

"If it is Corbyn, it will be easy for Johnson to direct all the vitriol his way. I think Johnson's task becomes much harder if, eg, it is moderate respected Tory rebel who asks for an extension and calls a GE."

He's a smart guy. Elsewhere I linked to his very accurate predictions about Johnson's strategy.

I'm getting confused tho as he makes sense on this yet in another thread I found myself agreeing with most of droodzillas points supporting corbyn an interim leader.

I need to lie down in a darkened room.

 

[SteveS1]

This is the Tory party’s vote being reduced, enough of the whining. Should make a Labour victory easier - or would you prefer a load of Labour MPs taking votes with them?

 

[Tony L]

I'm willing to bet that every one of those voting decisions, in context, with evidence and (especially) as compared to a worse-option, is completely understandable.

She’s got a degree in astrophysics, so chances are she did the maths!

 

[Seanm]

Good point made on this twitter thread by the very insightful Phil Syrpis regarding whether Corbyn should want to lead a caretaker government following a successful VoNC

https://mobile.twitter.com/syrpis/status/1179435456624234496

"Moreover, I don't think that Corbyn should want it to be Corbyn. The caretaker PM will be painted by Johnson as the face of the remainer Parliament, the leader of the coup that sought to stop Brexit."

"If it is Corbyn, it will be easy for Johnson to direct all the vitriol his way. I think Johnson's task becomes much harder if, eg, it is moderate respected Tory rebel who asks for an extension and calls a GE."

It seems very counterintuitive to me. I think it will be easier for Johnson to paint parliament as having staged a coup if some random backbencher is anointed PM on the say so of a tiny party and some MPs who no longer even have a party. I mean he'd have a point. And as far as Corbyn and Labour's interests are concerned, I don't think it would suit them to have the Tory PM taking questions from the Tory leader of the opposition at PMQs, to take only the most obvious example.

Corbyn's got the biggest mandate, he's perfectly comfortable opposing no deal, he's got the right reasons for doing so, the best chance of making it work, so let him do it.

 

[Seanm]

I'm willing to bet that every one of those voting decisions, in context, with evidence and (especially) as compared to a worse-option, is completely understandable.

It may not be palatable to this forum's Putin puppet, whose anti-liberalism has been allowed to thrive on this forum for at least three years, but then he's never actually faced a difficult decision in his life.

You might get away with that argument in one or two cases: maybe something obviously bad has to go through on the first vote so that it can be amended and defeated on the second, that kind of thing. But come off it. That's just a list of flagship Tory policies. Why would she, a Tory, find it difficult to vote for them? And what's the worse-option in the case of, say, austerity, or the hostile environment?

 

[SteveS1]

It seems very counterintuitive to me. I think it will be easier for Johnson to paint parliament as having staged a coup if some random backbencher is anointed PM on the say so of a tiny party and some MPs who no longer even have a party. I mean he'd have a point. And as far as Corbyn and Labour's interests are concerned, I don't think it would suit them to have the Tory PM taking questions from the Tory leader of the opposition at PMQs, to take only the most obvious example.

Corbyn's got the biggest mandate, he's perfectly comfortable opposing no deal, he's got the right reasons for doing so, the best chance of making it work, so let him do it.

Corbyn has nothing to lose and a lot to gain at the next election by being pragmatic about any interim arrangement that gets past this nonsense. To that end, I think the other Sean is right.