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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

Seeker_UK said:
I genuinely, genuinely struggle to understand why are so against exercising some pragmatism and supporting a party that will be better than the current one in power, even if only marginally.
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I’m sure come the crunch they will. I can’t see anything aside from a Labour landslide ahead. If I could I’d bet on it! This Tory government is the worst in my lifetime by far, maybe the worst in a century or more. We see exactly what they are and they are not getting back in power. That said the Labour Party is a cowardly disgrace and looks set to squander maybe the best opportunity for real reform since Attlee’s time. Starmer look set to merely keep the seats warm for a term or two until Eton/Oxbridge curl-out yet another Tory Party elite.
 
I’m trying to find the place where the Labour leader has supported Gary Linekar and the tens of millions of us who believe he is right?
 
Seeker_UK said:
I genuinely, genuinely struggle to understand why are so against exercising some pragmatism and supporting a party that will be better than the current one in power, even if only marginally
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I think this might not be as big a deal as you think it is. Most anti-Tories will vote Labour if they have to at the next election. Some won’t. It’s odd to blame - in advance- a fairly insignificant and powerless minority for not acting against their convictions and, let’s face it, basic decency when we could be asking more from people who do actually have some agency.
 
Seanm said:
I think this might not be as big a deal as you think it is. Most anti-Tories will vote Labour if they have to at the next election. Some won’t. It’s odd to blame - in advance- a fairly insignificant and powerless minority for not acting against their convictions and, let’s face it, basic decency when we could be asking more from people who do actually have some agency.
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The hard left and blame culture...

A lot more than 'some folk' didn’t do as you say back in 2019, 2017, 2015 and 2010. Quite a lot of supposed anti-tories voted LibDem and snp, iirc.
 
TheDecameron said:
I’m trying to find the place where the Labour leader has supported Gary Linekar and the tens of millions of us who believe he is right?
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Yvette Cooper articulated Labours position on Linekers tweet - supporting his right to free speech but the comparison with Nazi Germany in the 30s was going a bit far.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yvette Cooper articulated Labours position on Linekers tweet - supporting his right to free speech but the comparison with Nazi Germany in the 30s was going a bit far.
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Oh yeah?
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Spraggons Den said:
Yvette Cooper articulated Labours position on Linekers tweet - supporting his right to free speech but the comparison with Nazi Germany in the 30s was going a bit far.
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I disagree. The "language" of 1930s Germany bears comparison as opposed to what it actually became. The Nazis didn't start the process with forced transportations and gas chambers. They began with demonising and scapegoating minorities and when you hear Braverman using phrases like "invasion" and "breaking into this county" it's well on message with that and she knows who she is playing to.

I used to wonder in my history lessons how an apparently developed, culturally sophisticated country and people could possibly let it happen. But the uncomfortable truth is by doing nothing when the seemingly less significant actions began and by being willing to look the other way because it was easier. I don't doubt it could happen here and in the US, just look at Trump and DeSantis and tell me their followers couldn't be roused to such action. I know plenty of people here who would be happy to be part of it.
 
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On the one hand we have a DG who donates money to the Tories, a Chair who is an active Tory, a right wing car show presenter calling for murder and sexual humiliation of others, a political correspondent expressing right wing views, the BBC cancelling an Attenborough nature programme for fear of a right wing backlash and a football commentator slagging off Corbyn, all of which is within the rules, but when that same football commentator says something true about a right wing policy, it is against the rules?

Morality itself is now warped.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yvette Cooper articulated Labours position on Linekers tweet - supporting his right to free speech but the comparison with Nazi Germany in the 30s was going a bit far.
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That has strong, "I support the right to strike but will not support any actual, existing strike" vibes.

In a time of crisis it is a pathetic and spineless position.

In any case, I'm not sure we can trust Yvette with the lives of some of the most vulnerable people on the planet:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/mar/07/yvette-cooper-lesson-tony-blair-immigration
Yvette Cooper may well have promised not to "enter into an arms race of rhetoric" with the Tories over immigration but Labour's new approach detailed this week appears designed to ensure that nobody can put a cigarette paper between them.
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ks.234 said:
On the one hand we have a DG who donates money to the Tories, a Chair who is an active Tory, a right wing car show presenter calling for murder and sexual humiliation of others, a political correspondent expressing right wing views, the BBC cancelling an Attenborough nature programme for fear of a right wing backlash and a football commentator slagging off Corbyn, all of which is within the rules, but when that same football commentator says something true about a right wing policy, it is against the rules?

Morality itself is now warped.
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The really warped bit for me, the part that twists my mind after being used to a previous era of vacuity and narcissism, is that not for the first time in recent years the part of society showing some moral backbone and standing up for dignity and compassion is, of all things, football!
 
Dave***t said:
The really warped bit for me, the part that twists my mind after being used to a previous era of vacuity and narcissism, is that not for the first time in recent years the part of society showing some moral backbone and standing up for dignity and compassion is, of all things, football!
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Yes. The press and media seem to have lost any capacity to speak truth to power, the fact that when truth is spoken, it has to come from footballers is a sad sign of our times
 
Dave***t said:
The really warped bit for me, the part that twists my mind after being used to a previous era of vacuity and narcissism, is that not for the first time in recent years the part of society showing some moral backbone and standing up for dignity and compassion is, of all things, football!
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It's interesting and useful because it shows up how warped public life is in Britain and how much of that is down to our media-politics class. It's not that there's anything special about football or footballers it's just that prominence in this field doesn't require you to have gone to public school and Oxbridge or to have signed up to weird credos about how smart and reasonable it is to vilify asylum seekers. Basically it still has some connection to ordinary people at a time when an increasing gulf is opening up between ordinary people and the professional weirdos who dominate politics and political journalism.
 
Seanm said:
It's interesting and useful because it shows up how warped public life is in Britain and how much of that is down to our media-politics class. It's not that there's anything special about football or footballers it's just that prominence in this field doesn't require you to have gone to public school and Oxbridge or to have signed up to weird credos about how smart and reasonable it is to vilify asylum seekers. Basically it still has some connection to ordinary people at a time when an increasing gulf is opening up between ordinary people and the professional weirdos who dominate politics and political journalism.
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Excellent
 
From the BBC Website:

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has weighed in on the Lineker row.

“It is not impartial for BBC to cave in to Tory MPs complaining about Gary Lineker, it’s the opposite of impartial,” he said, while at the Welsh Labour conference in Llandundo.

“They got this one badly wrong and now they’re very, very exposed.”

Starmer said the crux of the issue was that the government had failed with their asylum system and was looking to blame others.

"What they should be doing is standing up, accepting they've broken the asylum system, and telling us what they're going to do to actually fix it, not whingeing on about Gary Lineker."
 
When you’d like to be able to read the room but can’t, until it’s way too late, because you’re a massive authoritarian twunt with no connection to citizens except through focus groups.
 
droodzilla said:
That has strong, "I support the right to strike but will not support any actual, existing strike" vibes.

In a time of crisis it is a pathetic and spineless position.

In any case, I'm not sure we can trust Yvette with the lives of some of the most vulnerable people on the planet:

FRVmEWYXIAIe7nr.jpg
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But she’ll hold up any old mug….

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Further evidence ….

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Seanm said:
When you’d like to be able to read the room but can’t, until it’s way too late, because you’re a massive authoritarian twunt with no connection to citizens except through focus groups.
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LOL!

Agree with your point upthread Sean. Someone else made the point earlier today that, unlike so much of British public life, football remains a meritocracy and isn't divided along class lines. You don't need money/Eton/Oxbridge etc, just be good at kicking a ball.

I hadn't really considered that before.
 
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