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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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droodzilla said:
Sorry but this is nonsense. The press camped out on Corbyn's doorstep every ****ing day despite him pleading with them not to out of consideration for his neighbours. His treatment by the press and by his own MPs was vile and a stain on our democracy.
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I can just imaging Starmer on the doorstep when confronted about being a member of the Labour front bench etc etc - "I tried to undermine it at every turn", "I wasn't listening in those meetings, I pissed around with my mobile phone", "in the HoC I had my fingers crossed behind my back", "actually I was spying for MI6". Why didn't you say anything? "Oh but I did" etc etc

Does he not know that in screwing the left over they damaged themselves almost irreparably? Does he believe that this kind of abject hypocrisy sets him up as a potential PM in the eyes of the electorate? I know he has a vocational degree from a quality, red brick university (which should have helped to set him apart from the Oxbridge set) but he obviously failed to learn the bl**dy basics.
 
deej92 said:
I just love the way the Labour left are calling for more Corbynism because things are going bad under Starmer.

You know that brand of politics that saw Labour get crushed at the last election. It’s like they want Labour to be forever unelectable and irrelevant. If I didn’t laugh I’d cry.
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Going back to something, be it Blair or Corbyn, will not help the Labour Party. It needs to look forward and develop a coherent narrative
 
Tony L said:
…and all they ever got for it was a thoroughly rude, petulant and evasive “hello, thank you, good bye”. He very seldom engaged and almost never actually answered questions put to him. Many of which were perfectly legitimate IMHO.

I do absolutely understand the harassment aspect, but I very firmly believe in political accountability and have zero respect for people we pay very good money to represent us evading or dodging any questions put to them short of very personal attacks (e.g. wife, family etc). Anything relating to policy, party or political perspective needs to be dealt with honestly as we are paying for it. Don’t like the scrutiny? Then don’t take the job.
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What the hell did you expect him to say? I don't think he gave a shit about his own privacy but he begged them to leave his neighbours alone.

For the benefit of everybody else weighing in on this: it's the scale of what Corbyn faced that's the issue and the fact that a lot of it was from his own MPs slagging him off on telly every day.

This is well-documented. I can't believe anyone is denying it.

Uniquely wicked and a stain on our democracy (what's left of it).
 
ks.234 said:
Going back to something, be it Blair or Corbyn, will not help the Labour Party. It needs to look forward and develop a coherent narrative
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Agree with this and that’s got to be a narrative for reconnecting with the working class voters the party has lost and coming up with its own vision for transforming the country. Right now people don’t even know what Labour stands for.

As someone who is passionate about Labour, I must also say that I take great offence at the assertion of another forum member that I’ve never voted for them before!
 
Seanm said:
There is no symmetry: they haven’t fought each other to a standstill, the right have won. They keep punching the corpse because what has actually brought them to a standstill is reality, and they cannot win that fight.
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For now, until the next round. The left “won” the previous round before suffering the biggest GE defeat in decades (=reality, as you call it), so there is symmetry, whether you like it or not.
If this is what “winning” looks like, the party is in trouble.
 
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It's a bit naive to think that as Leader of Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition, you can change years of press behaviour by asking them not to camp outside your house or trying to ignore them as you peddle off towards Islington High Street. You're just going to look a bit of a d*ck and too scared to speak to the press without the aid of a safety net.

Sadly, Sir Keir lacks the nous to deal with the press too and he's also looking like a bit of a d*ck too, also unable to wing it with the Press for fear of scaring some demographic or other.

Like it or not, the media play a huge role in this and will do for few years yet. As soon as Labour get a leadership team with a bit of media smarts and have a leader who presents well ('leader in waiting', nice suit, a bit of passion, personable, appears spontaneous and comfortable in interview even if it is scripted AF, etc), they'll walk it.
 
reconnecting with the working class is the least of the problem, in fact if they did, I suspect they wouldn't win under the current system.

They need to connect with a broad range of voters, the masses. They need to challenge with new ideas that resonate with voters.

People on doorsteps say they don't know what labour is about, and that Boris is impressive.
 
droodzilla said:
For the benefit of everybody else weighing in on this: it's the scale of what Corbyn faced that's the issue and the fact that a lot of it was from his own MPs slagging him off on telly every day.
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I don’t dispute how awful and dysfunctional the Labour party is. It is a shit heap IMHO. That they are so utterly incapable of aligning behind any leader or even remotely coherent ideology is clearly a structural issue, and again one I believe we have every right to scrutinise as long as they are taking our money and claiming to represent us in the role of an opposition party. The Labour Party is clearly not fit for purpose and it is essential that is highlighted and addressed.
 
gintonic said:
reconnecting with the working class is the least of the problem, in fact if they did, I suspect they wouldn't win under the current system.

They need to connect with a broad range of voters, the masses. They need to challenge with new ideas that resonate with voters.

People on doorsteps say they don't know what labour is about, and that Boris is impressive.
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All very true. The party do need to appeal to the masses and tell voters what they’re about and stand for and why they’re a better alternative than Boris.

The point still stands though, that if the party loses its base, the traditional working class vote in the north (Scotland is already lost), then Labour really do have no chance.
 
deej92 said:
Agree with this and that’s got to be a narrative for reconnecting with the working class voters the party has lost and coming up with its own vision for transforming the country. Right now people don’t even know what Labour stands for.

As someone who is passionate about Labour, I must also say that I take great offence at the assertion of another forum member that I’ve never voted for them before!
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Yes. Though I think the message should be about working people rather than the working class. The Labour Party already it is talking about working people rather than working class, but it’s without the substance to inform a coherent narrative. Instead of committing to working people in a mealy mouthed kind of way, explicitly set out that the Labour Party stands for the rights and interests of salaried people earning under, say £200,000 pa?
 
ks.234 said:
Yes. Though I think the message should be about working people rather than the working class. The Labour Party already it is talking about working people rather than working class, but it’s without the substance to inform a coherent narrative. Instead of committing to working people in a mealy mouthed kind of way, explicitly set out that the Labour Party stands for the rights and interests of salaried people earning under, say £200,000 pa?
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As long as people on 200k buy in to paying their taxes at a decent rate. The top rate is far too low - only the top 10% of earners get £60 k of more. I'm sure they could come up with a sliding scale like the Tories did on child benefit, for example.
 
PsB said:
For now, until the next round. The left “won” the previous round before suffering the biggest GE defeat in decades (=reality, as you call it), so there is symmetry, whether you like it or it.
If this is what “winning” looks like, the party is in trouble.
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No I don’t think this works either: the last 40 years has seen the right more or less eliminate the left and enjoy decades of power almost unchallenged - bar one completely unexpected drubbing to which they responded by setting fire to the party. You have to squint very hard to see that as a process of historical ping-pong. Right wing hegemony has been the norm for a generation at least, left wing rule a bizarre and partial break from the norm. And an absolutely traumatic one for the Wes Streetings of this world! They’ll do anything rather than endure another spell on the benches. So yes, the party’s in big trouble, because as far as I can see they’re now completely entrenched. The left had one shot and we blew it. It would take the unions to withdraw funding, I think, to force a change of direction.
 
Seanm said:
No I don’t think this works either: the last 40 years has seen the right more or less eliminate the left and enjoy decades of power almost unchallenged
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Hmm. 40 years ago takes us to 1981. Weren't 'the left' in charge for a few years after that, and wasn't the move rightwards under Kinnock a reaction to the Foot/Benn debacle?
 
Joe Hutch said:
Hmm. 40 years ago takes us to 1981. Weren't 'the left' in charge for a few years after that, and wasn't the move rightwards under Kinnock a reaction to the Foot/Benn debacle?
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Foot scabbed on Benn for the leadership, Benn had nothing to do with supporting the Falklands war and all that happened under the soft left/right coalition that went on to sopport Mudoch and fail the miners and the local councils so badly.

Here's a piece on how the EETPU (on the right of the TUC) acted for the state against the interests of the membership

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/th...ppens-when-radicals-are-driven-out-of-unions/
 
Joe Hutch said:
Hmm. 40 years ago takes us to 1981. Weren't 'the left' in charge for a few years after that, and wasn't the move rightwards under Kinnock a reaction to the Foot/Benn debacle?
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Call that the starting pistol (and call me a dick for liking to round numbers up). The reaction wasn’t a swing of the pendulum, or a correction: it was more like a jihad waged by the right against the left in response to what they saw as an interruption of legitimate Labour politics. Purges, the shutting down of local democracy, the running down of local branches, followed by consolidation and total control, for decades. Then an interruption by the left of legitimate Labour politics, followed by purges...Not a left-right back and forth, in other words, but right wing business as usual and the occasional left wing break with business as usual, followed by punishment beatings.
 
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