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Labour conference 2019, Tom Watson, Momentum etc

maxflinn said:
Absolute nonsense! No party leader has ever had to deal with a slur campaign against them of the proportions of that which Corbyn has had to deal with, while a fair chunk of his own party (Blairites) actively contributed.

Unprecedented is entirely correct.
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That is absolutely hilarious, you should do stand up. Have a look back at some of the headlines The Sun did re Kinnock, BTW it had over 3 million readers then.
 
With the way BJ and his posse are heading I'd be surprised if the LP don't pick up the Tory defection vote.

JC has managed to soldier on for longer than the last 3 Tory leaders have managed and achieved a certain consistency despite all the Right Wing press flack.
 
Been out most of the day, dropping son at Uni (gulp, blub etc) but interesting that Tom Watson story was lead on the news this morning & also trailed on the drive home. Momentum have controlled the news cycle today;)
 
Woodface said:
Been out most of the day, dropping son at Uni (gulp, blub etc) but interesting that Tom Watson story was lead on the news this morning & also trailed on the drive home. Momentum have controlled the news cycle today;)
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It's also interesting that it's *not* prominent on The Guardian website homepage. A few weeks ago they would have milked the story all weekend and printed several opinion pieces about "the death of civility" in the Labour Party. I wonder if the penny's dropped, after months of relentlessly negative (and occasionally dishonest) reporting, that the Labour Party actually need to do well in a general election if a hard Brexit is to be avoided.
 
droodzilla said:
It's also interesting that it's *not* prominent on The Guardian website homepage. A few weeks ago they would have milked the story all weekend and printed several opinion pieces about "the death of civility" in the Labour Party. I wonder if the penny's dropped, after months of relentlessly negative (and occasionally dishonest) reporting, that the Labour Party actually need to do well in a general election if a hard Brexit is to be avoided.
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Corbyn has handled it pretty well but I heard some blowhard crapping on about how they 'look at how LP officials are elected in the future'. It all seems a bit animal farm to me, democracy is great when it delivers what the party leadership team want. I have no great knowledge of Jon Lansman but he appears to be doing his best to pick the wrong fights at the worst time.
Not really sure re The Guardian, stopped reading it quite a few years ago after 20 odd years of loyal patronage. It's difficult at the moment to say the least.
 
droodzilla said:
It's also interesting that it's *not* prominent on The Guardian website homepage. A few weeks ago they would have milked the story all weekend and printed several opinion pieces about "the death of civility" in the Labour Party. I wonder if the penny's dropped, after months of relentlessly negative (and occasionally dishonest) reporting, that the Labour Party actually need to do well in a general election if a hard Brexit is to be avoided.
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For some of them I think, I'm not sure that's true of the Editor. Do you remember the 80s? Vote LibDem or Labour - shocking. The Observer was the only half decent national. When I used to live in Philadelphia in the 90s, I'd seek out the Obs on a Monday religiously, for 5 bucks I think it was.
 
SteveS1 said:
C'mon guys. Concocting a mechanism for removing a position because you don't like the current incumbent is pure "Death Of Stalin" and hugely funny.
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Moderately funny. And the climbdown made it rather farcical.

However, if anyone still feels outraged about this (failed) "attack on democracy" please refer to my earlier posts today. Even better, take some time to reacquaint yourselves with the dirty tricks of Labour "moderates" when Owen Smith challenged Corbyn for the leadership.

Better still, read Richard Seymour's excellent book about Corbyn which, looking at the Amaon reviews, seems to be disliked equally by both left and the right.
 
Woodface said:
Corbyn has handled it pretty well but I heard some blowhard crapping on about how they 'look at how LP officials are elected in the future'. It all seems a bit animal farm to me, democracy is great when it delivers what the party leadership team want. I have no great knowledge of Jon Lansman but he appears to be doing his best to pick the wrong fights at the worst time.
Not really sure re The Guardian, stopped reading it quite a few years ago after 20 odd years of loyal patronage. It's difficult at the moment to say the least.
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I doubt Corbyn would shed too many tears if Watson became an un-person but the fundamental issue is one of party democracy. Whatever mandate Watson had four years ago, the majority of party members have lost patience with him. But removing him is difficult because it relies on Labour MPs to trigger the process. Democratic deadlock.

I suspect Lansman fancied himself as a hero standing up for the wider membership but in the end he made a stink, everyone bottled it, and it all got rather embarassing.

It's worth remembering that although Lansman heads Momentum, he has his own views. For example, he's been somewhat critical of the way the party's handled accusations of anti-Semitism. Conversely, quite a few members on the left are suspicious of Lansman's influence and the fact that Momentum is actually a private company (his).

In short, we're all one big happy family!
 
Both parties are terminally fubar because the old idea, that a loose alliance of people with disparate views around one or two key planks of dogma can compromise and stick together for a chance of winning the big prize, simply doesn't work at the moment. No-one 'does' compromise anymore and the political glue that held them together isn't strong enough; it has to be 'my way or no-way' which we have seen repeatedly during the brexit leave deal b*llocks that we've had to endure for the last three years.
 
droodzilla said:
I doubt Corbyn would shed too many tears if Watson became an un-person but the fundamental issue is one of party democracy. Whatever mandate Watson had four years ago, the majority of party members have lost patience with him. But removing him is difficult because it relies on Labour MPs to trigger the process. Democratic deadlock.

I suspect Lansman fancied himself as a hero standing up for the wider membership but in the end he made a stink, everyone bottled it, and it all got rather embarassing.

It's worth remembering that although Lansman heads Momentum, he has his own views. For example, he's been somewhat critical of the way the party's handled accusations of anti-Semitism. Conversely, quite a few members on the left are suspicious of Lansman's influence and the fact that Momentum is actually a private company (his).

In short, we're all one big happy family!
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Watson has a mandate, assume he could be challenged by another candidate rather than just abolishing the position.
 
maxflinn said:
Angela Eagle said he campaigned the length and breadth of the country with the energy of a teenager, or something to that effect.

How so? Labour discussed it at their 2017 conference and came up with a Brexit strategy that they are still following.

What he (and Labour) have done is respect the mandate, while also considering the views of remainers.

He hasn't sat on the fence.
You can't really handle a smear campaign that won't stop. All you can do is try to crack on despite it, which he has done.
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You really need to look at the impact of Corbyn's leadership on the voting public to see the damage he is doing to Labour. And don't tell me they are all brainwashed by the anti-Corbyn establishment for God's sake.
 
alanbeeb said:
As a voter with no particular party affinity, I am in despair at how the opposition would rather fight itself than do its job of opposing the worst government we've had in centuries.

We've got to get out of this place.
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That is the whole problem in a nutshell.
Even given an open goal to score against since c.2010, we still apparently have no effective Opposition.


(and it doesn't matter who you or I root for: effective Opposition to hold the Government of the day to account is likely the single most essential thing in a parliamentary system. And it's not working)
 
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