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Knocking Naim!

Gerald said:
I would wholeheartedly agree with you if there was transparency of information .

If each box had an accurate breakdown of what it cost to make and were retail price went I would have no problem with their pricing .

Something tells me though that they would sell very few if they did .
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On the other hand, why should Naim be transparent? Naim isn't about value for money any more than Rolex watches are about value for money.

In absolute terms, Naim is outrageously overpriced. But it obviously is not in the real world because they still manage to flog gear at those prices.

You are paying for the Naim (sorry, couldn't resist it:))

Chris
 
Gerald said:
I would wholeheartedly agree with you if there was transparency of information .

If each box had an accurate breakdown of what it cost to make and were retail price went I would have no problem with their pricing .

Something tells me though that they would sell very few if they did .
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Well that probably goes for any high end piece of kit - but at least it maintains some of its value rather than become next year's landfill like some stuff - and the reason for that is solid build, customer service, and keeping the skilled labour and parts to keep legacy gear going, none of which come cheap.
They are certainly not in a monopoly situation, there are plenty of alternatives if you don't like Naim's prices, and if enough feel that way, they'll either have to lower their prices or go out of business. Hasn't happened yet:)

I don't think their digital gear will command the same legacy status though - the technology is just moving too fast at the moment.
 
tones said:
The local Naim dealer once loaned me a Naim CD player, plus one of the outboard power supplies, which, he assured me, would lift it to a whole new level of performance.
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As long as you put the player on top of the extra box it must lift it by at least a couple of inches... no?
 
i like naim the company, and the US distributor, but i've always been able to find gear i preferred at a much lower cost, even though i was willing to pay a higher price.

the main (anagram intended) turn off for me is the supposed 101 ways in which the naim sound can go off: you looked at it funny, you haven't dusted the listening room recently, the carpet is the wrong color, etc.
 
Purite Audio said:
Naim make decent kit, the room and loudspeakers are almost totally responsible for the 'sound' of any system.
Keith.
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Oh dear,
That absolute truism is gonna get you slaughtered.... in a stroke you have killed any shop speaker demo......stone dead........hopefully.

Not a Naim 'fanboy' myself, owned a NAP 250 and before that a NAP 180... they are good, nice looking in a simple orderly way. Special to some and not others. Have a great.."oooohh that's naim Audio isn't it"? factor from those 'in the know'. Sold mine, don't miss them, but that doesn't mean I didn't like em. Just don't miss Them.
 
The original £ v performance and non-foo attitude to cabling and accessories of JV's day was a refreshingly no nonsense appoach. But it's a business and the marketing man (men?) got hold of it and along came the regular new product launches, boutique cables, specialist supports and other frippery.

They still make some very good products but a bewildering number of them, several crossing over and the £ v performance of the high end soon became rather off the scale imo.

There is much more serious competition at those prices than was the case in the 52/250 days. Some of the older kit makes a very good used buy with zero depreciation, not much to dislike about that I would have thought.
 
cromodora said:
What? Naim?
Never!!
flatcap76xi.jpg
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Yep, that's some seriously expensive fresh air!

Alex
 
In all seriousness and whilst we do enjoy the photo of the Flatcap, if it were a little traffo in a little box with a few wires no one would say anything and accept it as the baby PSU, bit like the old SNAPS.

Maybe there is a reason it is in a full width case, certainly allows it to match the other bits in that range and look smart on the shelf.

Maybe it is utilising the notion of sharing common parts, not unusual in manufacturing.
 
Gaius said:
In all seriousness and whilst we do enjoy the photo of the Flatcap, if it were a little traffo in a little box with a few wires no one would say anything and accept it as the baby PSU, bit like the old SNAPS.

Maybe there is a reason it is in a full width case, certainly allows it to match the other bits in that range and look smart on the shelf.

Maybe it is utilising the notion of sharing common parts, not unusual in manufacturing.
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True enough on all points... Still, I would be a bit deflated if I saw that...
 
IIRC that series were all full sized and often stacked directly on top of each other.

BUT, and its a but I've never got to grips with; why didn't Naim just include it inside the amp it was supposed to be connected to in the first place!

I can understand such massive PSU on Naims pre and powers etc. but the Nait 3 and 90 series was a simple little things. If you look inside something like the Bryston B60, you'll see how it should've been done. Same with the clamshell Rega Elicit.
 
More boxes = the kit must be much better than other separate/integrated amps.
 
Joe P said:
tones,


I have no ax to grind here, as I have but one very old Naim component, but I'm genuinely surprised that you didn't hear a difference when the outboard supply was added to the CD player.

If you had thought the difference (or improvement) was slight or poor value for money, I'd not be surprised. But no difference at all?

Well, lemme just say I have raised an eyebrow, all Spock-like.

24evvxv.gif


Joe
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Not surprising to me as he is the same bloke who heard no difference with a Mana support.
 
Cereal Killer said:
IIRC that series were all full sized and often stacked directly on top of each other.

BUT, and its a but I've never got to grips with; why didn't Naim just include it inside the amp it was supposed to be connected to in the first place!

I can understand such massive PSU on Naims pre and powers etc. but the Nait 3 and 90 series was a simple little things. If you look inside something like the Bryston B60, you'll see how it should've been done. Same with the clamshell Rega Elicit.
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I suspect right at the beginning it made sense to keep costs down on a two box system by taking the power from a tap on the massive traffo in the power-amp. Then someone spotted an improvement by substituting a separate power supply. Then someone spotted a goldmine..... and the rest was history (no inside knowledge but my best guess).
 
Steven Toy said:
Naim advised 1) to connect output A to the preamp section of the Nait and output B to the CD5.

I tried this along with two other permutations:

2) FC2 output A to CD5, output B not connected.

3) FC2 output A to CD5, output B to Nait.

My preference was for 2) above. I identified all three permutations correctly every time over about 8 swaps.

I am waiting to be told that it wasn't double-blind and/or I am lying.
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If you can identify those correctly every time, unsighted, then I'm well impressed!
 
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