John Eliot Gardiner - Beethoven Symphonies.
- Thread starter Basil
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
I've usually found the early stuff on the tulip label (see my FAQ here) to sound somewhere between good and exceptional, especially the German pressings, e.g. I've got a beautiful copy of Berg's Wozzeck (Bohm) which would stand comparison against pretty much anything. It is a wonderful record. My Karajan Beethoven certainly never struck me as bad, and the same goes for the 60s Tchaikovsky cycle, which I also have. That box includes the Richter Piano Concerto 1, which is a real childhood fav of mine, my parents had a copy and I think it was the first classical piece I got to know on vinyl. I suspect DGG's less than stellar reputation arrived later towards the tail-end of the 70s when the recordings were drier and a lot of vinyl was produced outside of Germany or reissued in a budget format, or worse digitally remastered and pressed to budget vinyl. They certainly made some errors late on. I like the proper 60s heavyweight vinyl pressings though, but as I say I have never heard the CDs.
PS what do you think of the Jos Van Immerseel / Anima Eterna Beethoven? That's the only digital cycle I have.
alanbeeb
pfm Member
This thread is dangerous. Just bought the Anima eterna cycle - and the 1960s Karajan on Sacd.
Thats bad enough - but I bought the new Chailly/Gewandhaus set just a few weeks ago too. Mixed feelings about that.... Some of it is wonderfully exciting and fresh, but often it's overdriven and breathless. Also the recording is too heavy and thick, especially the timpani which are often overbearing. However.... It's definitely got something as I've wanted to return to it often, it is quite an invigorating listen.
Otherwise I'm a fan of Norrington, especially in 7 & 9.
Thats bad enough - but I bought the new Chailly/Gewandhaus set just a few weeks ago too. Mixed feelings about that.... Some of it is wonderfully exciting and fresh, but often it's overdriven and breathless. Also the recording is too heavy and thick, especially the timpani which are often overbearing. However.... It's definitely got something as I've wanted to return to it often, it is quite an invigorating listen.
Otherwise I'm a fan of Norrington, especially in 7 & 9.
tones
Tones deaf
Just listening to the Karajan '62 9th tonight reminded me of all the silly little things I love about it, the ting of the triangle in the Turkish march, the piccolo rising out of the orchestra as it builds to a crescendo before the string run, the magnificence of the double fugue, with the sopranos of the Wiener Singverein holding the last note for about 15 seconds, the beauty of Gunulda Janowitz's soprano in the final quartet, rising to the high note without any trace of screeching and the wonderful explosive gallop to the finish. Goosebumps on goosebumps stuff. Freude indeed.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The Philharmonia was created by Walter Legge as a recording entity for Karajan and he and Furtwangler were never likely to share an orchestra now were they? Having said that, Furtwangler gave the world premiere of The Four Last Songs with them in 1950 in London. Would love to know the politics of that one. I met Mrs. Legge BTW and she lived upto her imperious reputation.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
I recently found a mint copy of the exact same set, complete with booklet (only in German) and a little paper informing the subscriber that this copy, Exemplar XIII-687, has 8 LPs instead of the 7 originally planned to ensure a perfect "inner unity" for each LP side, and this without any increase in the agreed price...
I have never seen such thick inner liners as on this set (and on the box of complete Beethoven sonatas by Kempf I got at the same time). The ones I have listened to so far sound pretty good to me. Haven't got to the 9th yet but looking forward to it.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Karajan`s recordings with the Philharmonia were among hist best - apart from the Beethoven look at the Mozart horn concertos with Dennis Brain and Hansel and Gretel with Elisabeth Grummer and the aformentioned Mrs. Legge.
tones
Tones deaf
Same here, I think... I'll dig the camera out and post some pics...
Bit of a post 'n' run yesterday, I should have mentioned the lps are not in the best nick...
They're cleaner than I remember, but are all plagued by surface noise and severe clicks and pops...
I think that the JEG set would be about the worst possible choice for someone starting out on the Beethoven Symphonies!
Cheese
Bitter lover
Indeed, I think there are better choices for a beginner, I guess something more 'traditional' would be a lot better. The Karajan set recorded 1976 was my first set and it is, as a whole, still my favourite set. Oh and sound quality as well as interpretation are miles better than the early-80's digital set - how sound engineer Günter Herrmanns could make the Berliners sound that flat is just beyond me, he must have had a bad day.
PaulMB
pfm Member
From a position of fascinated ignorance, I've been following this thread for the past few days. It occurs to me that someone with competence and years of listening experience might like to draw brief word-sketches of the way different conductors perform the Beethoven symphonies. So that those less competent can have some kind of rough guidelines as to what to expect. Incidentally, the other day on the radio I heard James Levine conducting the 5th, and to my surprise it came across much more gentle and soft than what I've been used to, and rather beautiful. It was the Italian state radio, so rather than an existing CD it may well have been a live recording of a concert in Italy in the 1970s or 80s.
The conductors I had in mind were:
Furtwaengler
Toscanini
Karajan
Kleiber
Bernstein
Levine
Gardiner
Abbado
Although I'm sure I'm missing a few important ones.
The conductors I had in mind were:
Furtwaengler
Toscanini
Karajan
Kleiber
Bernstein
Levine
Gardiner
Abbado
Although I'm sure I'm missing a few important ones.
Tony L
Administrator
Not quite, that's the 60s cycle, but a 70s repress of it.
Here's my 60s Herbie Von K set (inner sleeves are non-original) along with the Tchaikovsky and Wozzeck I mentioned earlier. Got a few more of these nice old 'tulip' label DGG boxes knocking about too, a couple of Verdi operas, even some Henze. Nowhere near as collectable as similar period Columbia, Decca or HMV, but I like them a lot.
alanbeeb
pfm Member
Norrington/LCP was my introduction to Beethoven symphonies. I don't seem to have suffered too badly.
lordsummit
Moderator
I like those performances. It's a lovely set.
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
my mistake. i have a 9th symphony from the 50's that i imagined was a part of the 50s set. that's what my comments were based on.
vuk.
tones
Tones deaf
That final Karajan DG set has achieved a certain notoriety as a must to avoid. HvK's tendencies to smooth, glamorous sounds, avoiding the "warts and all" approach to music in general and Beethoven in particular, had reached its pinnacle. Moreover, he was a sick man. The bad back problems, which started with a fall out of a tree in childhood, had become really bad, and in later performances he wears a curious high-collared coat, perhaps to hide a back brace. The face was visibly haggard, the aggressively coiffed silver hair completely white. It all conspired to make a set worth forgetting.
The second ('70s) DG set is indeed good, with that version's 9th (IMHO) running the '62 version close for the title for best ever recording.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
I have the 80`s Karajan set and it put me off him for some years. It wasn`t until I realised what a truly great opera conductor he was that I looked again at his orchestral recordings - and realised the last Beethoven set was something of an abberation.
Having re-visited his 50's, 60's and 70's symphony cycles, I'd agree with tones assessment of HvK's final set... interesting as an historical document, but that's all...
This however, is well worth a punt...
