John Eliot Gardiner - Beethoven Symphonies.
- Thread starter Basil
- Start date
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Just ordered the early Karajan and the Gardiner sets - from Amazon - no idea how long HMV can stay in business with their current insane pricing.
The 60's HvK? As announced in the Symphony thread, I just spotted the 70's cycle by HvK, which I've been looking for, on CD, for ages, it's always struck me as the most 'ballanced' of the four complete cycles.
Just had a look at HMV online, and there are two Gardiner sets, the latest release £24.99 and the first release @ £64.99!
Both are 5 disc sets... I think HMV have moved to Bizarro world.
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/simpleMultiSearch.do?searchUID=1215318037782803241&pGroupID=-1&adultFlag=false&simpleSearchString=gardiner+beethoven+symphonies&primaryID=music
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Gardiner ninth...
Just had a look at HMV online, and there are two Gardiner sets, the latest release £24.99 and the first release @ £64.99!
Both are 5 disc sets... I think HMV have moved to Bizarro world.
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/simpleMultiSearch.do?searchUID=1215318037782803241&pGroupID=-1&adultFlag=false&simpleSearchString=gardiner+beethoven+symphonies&primaryID=music
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Gardiner ninth...
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
No the 50`s HvK with the Philharmonia - I want to hear the 7th without the noise and distortion on the old LPs. I was never even sure they had been issued, they were amongst the very first EMI LP tests.
naimplayer
Aspiring to be a halfwit.
Basil, I must agree with you on the JEG 9th. Just sat & listened to JEG followed by HvK 1960's DG. Worlds apart. I just dont get the JEG version. As someone commented & I agree the 9th is not my favorite anyway. All the rest excellent.
Right, [patronising]excellent choice[/patronising] ;-)
I have the set on lp, an original issue... but if I buy another set of Beethoven symphonies my partner has threatened to leave me, after chopping me into small parts... :-(
Hmmm, it would be nice to have all four on CD...
And sex is sooooo over-rated...
Amazon here I come...!!!!!!
Oh, could you pm me your address, just so I can send the better half around to make sure you never tempt another person into buying more Beethoven symphonies than they could ever need, thanks...
btw, she has this saying, 'the best way to a mans heart? Is through his shirt, with a bread knife...'
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Oh dear, it sounds as if your partner and Mrs Bm would get on like a house on fire.....
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Well, Karajan and JEG sets arrived Friday but we were away for the weekend so I have only listened to the 7th (Karajan) - wonderfull performance and great to hear it without all the noise and distortion - well, a lot less distortion anyway and the JEG 7th - starts well but seems to get out of control in the last movement. JEG 8th - not for me (benchmark Beecham RPO early fifties.
Weekend trip to hear Stafford Choral Society concert - Cherubini requiem - new to me - interesting, accompanied as it happens by Beethoven symphony No 1- done rather better than history lead us to expect.
Weekend trip to hear Stafford Choral Society concert - Cherubini requiem - new to me - interesting, accompanied as it happens by Beethoven symphony No 1- done rather better than history lead us to expect.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Unless I was a Beethoven 'completist' I couldn't bring myself to buy a Gardiner or a Norrington set. I've had Karajan imprinted from an early age and if I want novelty I listen to Furtwangler. 
I'm listening to the Karajan March 1962 recording of the Fifth. It's all you could hope for. Come on, it doesn't get any better than this- Beethoven from Karajan and the BPO on a good day. If there is a god, he would be making the thumbs up sign.
I'm listening to the Karajan March 1962 recording of the Fifth. It's all you could hope for. Come on, it doesn't get any better than this- Beethoven from Karajan and the BPO on a good day. If there is a god, he would be making the thumbs up sign.
mmaatt
pfm Member
Unless I was a Beethoven 'completist' I couldn't bring myself to buy a Gardiner or a Norrington set. I've had Karajan imprinted from an early age and if I want novelty I listen to Furtwangler.
I'm listening to the Karajan March 1962 recording of the Fifth. It's all you could hope for. Come on, it doesn't get any better than this- Beethoven from Karajan and the BPO on a good day. If there is a god, he would be making the thumbs up sign.
It comes down to how we like our music: for me Gardiner was a revelation when I heard him do Beethoven's fifth at the proms a few years ago; it was like hearing it for the first time. He is still number one for my favourite composer - JS Bach. I find Karajan over-refined to the point of blandness.
mat
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
I`m certainly not a Beethoven completist, I`m hoping that 4 sets (HvK 1984, Furtwangler 1954, Hvk 1952 and JEG) will be enough. There is a massive difference between HvK 1952 and 1984 - certainly on the 7th - not keen on the later version - much more listening yet to go. C Kleiber`s 7th is pretty good though.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Barry I'm struck by how similar his 62 and 70s readings are. I must dig out the 70s stuff. I too have the 50s lp's -somewhere , hiding. Heard Kleibers 6th on Radio 3 a few Saturdays ago and it was indeed very special. My heart sank when the announcer said the CD came from the only surviving tape of the live recording- a cassette belonging to his son.
Just listen to Kleiber's performance of the Pastoral, and don't worry about the hi-fi aspect: it's perfectly adequate sound,
Given that this was the only time that Carlos Kleiber ever conducted the piece, and that the library tape was damaged, it's an effing miracle that you are able to hear this masterly interpretation at all!
Given that this was the only time that Carlos Kleiber ever conducted the piece, and that the library tape was damaged, it's an effing miracle that you are able to hear this masterly interpretation at all!
tones
Tones deaf
Agreed. That's one of the best Fifths you'll ever hear, especially the third-fourth movement transition, where Karajan makes it deathly quiet and then slowly and relentlessly builds the tension until the fourth movement sits up on its hind legs and ROARS.
The Ninth of that set is probably the best ever put on record - especially the dazzling brilliance of the BPO in the wonderful string section between the Turkish march and the final appearance of the An die Freude theme.
Can't agree that any of HvK's early 1960s BPO DG set can be regarded as definitive, not least because his own 1950s Philharmonia EMI set is better in almost every regard.
As to Beethoven's Fifth, Carlos and Erich Kleiber produced much better recordings, as did Klemperer in his mono 1950s Philharmonia EMI recording.
Anyone looking for a modern Beethoven cycle would be well advised to seek out Abbado's most recent Berlin PO set: wonderful, fast and exciting recordings, light years ahead of Gardiner's slam bam noise.
As to Beethoven's Fifth, Carlos and Erich Kleiber produced much better recordings, as did Klemperer in his mono 1950s Philharmonia EMI recording.
Anyone looking for a modern Beethoven cycle would be well advised to seek out Abbado's most recent Berlin PO set: wonderful, fast and exciting recordings, light years ahead of Gardiner's slam bam noise.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Dammit, I'll need to get it now. I love the Furtwangler Bayreuth 51 recording, Bohm's 81 recording with Jessye Norman, & the VPO and one of Karajans later ones.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
I have just discovered that I have this recording in my semi-inherited LP collection - even more listening to do.
I'm rapidly re-assesing the HvK 60's set, I've only heard it on lp and the CDs are a revelation... only played 1 & 6 so far, off to listen to more soon! Probably the ninth and fifth, after reading this!
Thanks tones!
Tony L
Administrator
Are the CDs a lot better? I've got the HVK cycle in the original and very substantial cloth-bound 'tulip' label DGG vinyl box set and I've always felt it sounded very decent, as most 60s DGG vinyl does IME.
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
tony.
i find DG vinyl to be among the worst. in this case, you are better off with the CDs.
as for JEG, cute but not often convincing. for period style, i prefer harnoncourt and even some of norrigton's efforts. harnoncourt, like furtwängler, manages to make the 4th sound like an odd-numbered symphony.
btw--the 1950s karajan is good because the orchestra still had the furtwängler sound ;-) it verges on the perverse. the 1960s set is more genuine.
vuk.