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John Eliot Gardiner - Beethoven Symphonies.

Just listened to HvK's 1962 9th on DG vinyl. (The recording sounds fine, very ample sound except for an unfortunate tendency the recording engineer has in the 4th movement to throttle back on the fff passages: the orchestra and choir at full blast sound no louder than other passages with only half the crew.)

The performance is fine and energetic, and the soloists at the end are excellent. But the 9th is still not my favourite LvB symphony: too long, too ponderous, too stodgy for my uneducated taste. The 3d movement in particular seems to run out of steam somewhere around the middle and takes for ever. Ms Janowitz in the 4th movement makes it worth plodding through, but I won't be listening to this monument of Western civilisation again for a while.

(I've got me coat on already and will let meself out)
 
Thats OK. No-one should hold it against you. I'm sure there was a great critic (Tovey maybe?) who declared that the 9th should only be heard once a year at most. I agree about the slow movement... doesn't quite match to the others.

The 7th is the best anyway.

Just been listening to Anima Eterna/Immersel version of that... its good but Norrington and live Bavarian State Orchestra Kleiber are much better.
 
TheDecameron said:
I'm listening to the Karajan March 1962 recording of the Fifth. It's all you could hope for. Come on, it doesn't get any better than this- Beethoven from Karajan and the BPO on a good day. If there is a god, he would be making the thumbs up sign.
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Just listened to the LP - can`t disagree, JEG - O.K., 1952 HvK damn good but this is the one.
 
Basil said:
Radio 3 CD review: Beethoven symphony No.6.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/bal

Well worth a listen...
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Thank you. A typically thoughtful review by John Deathridge. I don't think he mentioned sound quality once! I don't recall that he mentioned the Klemperer 1957 recording either, my favorite Wrong but Wromantic version, not surprising perhaps: the opposite of everything he was advocating.

I downloaded the "winner" yesterday evening and started listening. Compelling stuff, I couldn't switch off, scuppering the planned early night.
 
But the 9th is still not my favourite LvB symphony: too long, too ponderous, too stodgy for my uneducated taste.
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I read once that Beethoven himself had his doubts about the choral finale and considered replacing it. I'll try and dig the book out.

The 9th is much loved, mainly imo because of the "novelty" finale. I personally quite dislike it and it's the only movement of any Beethoven symphony I don't really enjoy listening to. Still, it's better than most composers' best efforts!

BTW, fourth is my favourite!
 
Nic Robinson said:
I read once that Beethoven himself had his doubts about the choral finale and considered replacing it. I'll try and dig the book out.

The 9th is much loved, mainly imo because of the "novelty" finale. I personally quite dislike it and it's the only movement of any Beethoven symphony I don't really enjoy listening to. Still, it's better than most composers' best efforts!

BTW, fourth is my favourite!
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I think the doubts were not so much over the choral finale (he was determined to set Schiller's An die Freude (Ode to Joy) to music because it expressed so well his own feelings about the brotherhood of man). The problem was, how to introduce it. He never really solved the problem to his own satisfaction, and in the end settled for the slightly corny soloist entry suddenly bursting in as the theme of the first movement tries to make a comeback and saying, more or less, "OK, guys, enough of this miserable stuff, let's sing more fun stuff!"

O Freunde, nicht diese Tönen!
Sondern lasst uns angenehemere anstimmen, und freudenvollere!

In contrast to your goodself, I am very fond of the Ninth and particularly of the finale, which, if well done, is utterly magnificent. It's somewhat of a collection of bits, but the individual bits are marvellous, and of course it has That Tune, one of the greatest ever written.

P.S. There's what appears to be a "dummy run" for the 9th in the earlier Choral Fantasy - the two are very alike.
 
Basil said:
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Gardiner ninth...
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Oh dear, I seem to be off script on this one - I think it`s O.K. - definitely the best of the set that I have listened to so far (1,5,7,8,9) HvK 1952 - O.K.ish but poor sound, HvK 1984 - average, but the recording I like best is Ansermet and the OSR in 1962 on LP. Still lots of listening to do though.
 
Tony L said:
Are the CDs a lot better? I've got the HVK cycle in the original and very substantial cloth-bound 'tulip' label DGG vinyl box set and I've always felt it sounded very decent, as most 60s DGG vinyl does IME.
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Is this the set that was then included in the DG 1970 Complete Beethoven issue?
 
Not generally a fan of the 9th, unfortunately for me, it never seems to work as well as it is supposed to.

I like this version though, I could listen to it all day:
[YOUTUBE]8-CFZ8p84eo[/YOUTUBE]
 
my current favourite Beethoven symphony cycle is the latest Abbado/BPO version; he's taken on some of the scrapey scratchy authentic brigade's ideas on board, but goes full tilt (try no.7 first movement for example) with a top notch band.

my tuppence worth . . .
 
alanbeeb said:
Riccardo Chailly names JE Gardiner as one of his big influences in the notes for his new Gewandhaus set - which is fast & furious most of the time.
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Have had a couple of weeks now to begin digesting the Chailly / Gewandhaus set and it's been like coming to them anew. The notion that you 'know this music' through decades of familiarity- that's been taken away. Sometimes if I'm lucky at concerts I hear a score illuminated differently and come home feeling hat Ive learned something new. Well this set is producing the same experience.
 
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