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ITV Breathtaking

paulfromcamden said:
The Black Death? Pah! I've had worse hangovers...
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I looked up the data for the UK, Coronavirus Cases: 24,898,914 ; Deaths: 232,112 ; Recovered: 22,954,691.

I can only assume the other 42 million or so just didn’t bother getting tested as even I doubt anyone avoided it so actually over 67m recovered. It was most likely employed adults getting tested, children probably less likely and self employed people don’t get ill!
 
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hc25036 said:
Can you not accept, even grudgingly, that without lockdown slowing the spread to allow the vaccine development to get ahead, and that we were lucky that the first variant to get into humans was one of the less infectious ones (which wasn’t known at the time), the outcomes could have been very different?
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But there may never have been a vaccine and we just would have had to had get on with it, if the vaccine really done anything anyway? And how long should lockdown be? Even I begrudgingly agreed with two weeks but certainly not two years on and off.
 
Why not count the number of times folk have had it more than once, that's over 100m recoveries!


How many hospital beds, nurses, doctors have we?
Edit. Oh god I've just seen #123
 
allthingsanalog said:
I think what happened was a minority who disagreed with the majority decided to voice their opinion rather than feel the need to be kept quiet. Nothing wrong there.
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Yes, indeed. And you are right that a minority should not be silenced. You have had your say. You have also ignored the well-argued and evidenced contrary positions, in particular those from HC, who has specific professional expertise in this area, so there is nothing to be gained from simply repeating your position, which is what is now happening.
 
Whilst I have the greatest sympathy with regard to the economic consequences of Covid - amongst other things I spent 2 of the last 4 years managing a team offering benefits advice to those who applied for the £500 Test and Trace payments whether they got them or not so i saw those consequences 1st hand and very vividly - the view that “everyone caught it eventually“ is naive at best and both scientifically illiterate and ignorant at worst. Your experience may have been that you’ve had “worse colds” but that was not the experience.

My sister‘s partner at the time, who I referenced earlier in this thread as working in A&E and Covid wards in the NW, expressed a clear view over lunch in December 2019 that Covid was no worse than bad flu. By May he’d had it twice and at one point couldn‘t move or speak and nearly died. That original view has changed. My healthy son in law got no more than a sniffle for a week. My healthy colleague of the same age died. I have multiple colleagues who weren’t aware they’d had Covid but are certainly aware they have long Covid. I’ve seen one family with 2 healthy parents and kids lose both parents inside a week. I was fortunate enough to be working from home and managed to avoid it until late April 2023. It wiped out 7 weeks of my life and reawoke a spinal issue that now sees me doing an hour of physio every day for the rest of my life just to get by. There was apparently no relationship with the subsequent pneumonia and pulmonary embolisms or indeed the bronchitis I’m now recovering from but Covid preceded the worst year of health I’ve had since I was 20. I m very clear that I caught Covid from the idiot on the train from Manchester to Chester who was coughing and spluttering everywhere but chose to take offence when, too late, I elected to put a mask on in front of them. At that point I’d been back on public transport for a year. That was literally the 1st journey I’d taken without a mask.

The idea that just because you got or have had Covid repeatedly and are okay then there’s no issue for others os at best arrogant and ignorant.

The economic costs during lock down were devastating and disproportionate. It’s also fair to say that the employed and self-employed suffered far less in comparison to those who were unemployed, sick, disabled. I have very mixed feelings on lockdowns and the fact we had a plan but declined to update or reference it. Had we done so then we would have shut borders etc.

What i think we can be clear about is that those who were employed/self-employed suffered more because of the historically ignorant attempt to keep parts of the economy functioning but at least have the opportunity in many cases to get themselves back on their feet to some extent however hard that may be. Those who were unemployed, sick or disabled have had no such opportunities and the economy will suffer more in the long term from their lack of economic activity than it will have from a lock down.
 
Sorry to go all nerd here but it’s called Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) because the infectious respiratory illness was first identified in 2019. It’s not the 19th coronavirus discovered.

Edit: D’oh, I skipped the page where others mentioned the same thing. However, if you didn’t know this …. Yikes!

Joe
 
Apologies. With regard to my last post I should of course have added that many of the employed and self-employed did become the unemployed, sick and disabled. Inevitably those will not be the voices we hear here. At the same time though many of them were fast-tracked onto UC in a manner which gave a false view of the efficiency of that process. It may have opened their eyes slightly as to how inadequate the amounts on offer were but it will likely have escaped them that the price of their smooth move to UC was delays in the processing of new claims and challenges to decisions on disability benefits which persist today.
 
allthingsanalog said:
But there may never have been a vaccine and we just would have had to had get on with it, if the vaccine really done anything anyway? And how long should lockdown be? Even I begrudgingly agreed with two weeks but certainly not two years on and off.
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Clearly the majority here hold default hatred for Boris (and conservatives in general) but it would have been interesting to see how differently Corbyn would have handled lockdowns had he won the 2019 GE. Earlier, later, shorter, longer? Shut everything down and pay everyone’s salary until vaccinated?
 
On the flip side, if you spent the past four years in a cave without newspapers, radio, TV or the internet you also avoided a deadly pandemic. Well done.

Joe
 
matt j said:
I see Ponty has found a mate, I was worried he was getting lonely for a second but this one seems right on his level.
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I would say I’ve been more than appeasing. I was vaccinated 3 times. Lot's of people refused, a certain Tennis Player for example. Not to mention the uproar over covid passports. When my local introduced for a short time, no vaccine, no entry he came in for hell of a lot abuse online and that I was totally against that. Actually it could have been a quick way out of restrictions but so many people objected it never could have worked.

As for laughing about the 'Tory', yes I’ve always been Tory but the recent goings on have certainly made me think better about it. Although laughing about someone for being different goes against my daughters school policy and many others no doubt.

If vote Labour this year can I join the club?
 
Ponty said:
Clearly the majority here hold default hatred for Boris (and conservatives in general) but it would have been interesting to see how differently Corbyn would have handled lockdowns had he won the 2019 GE. Earlier, later, shorter, longer? Shut everything down and pay everyone’s salary until vaccinated?
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Certainly don’t hate Boris or conservatives in general on principle, but more than seriously unimpressed with their behaviour that certainly cost many lives. Absolutely no idea where ‘what would Corbyn have done’ takes the argument about what actually happened and whether lockdown was worth it.
 
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