Is a *istD a good secondhand buy?

[Patrick Dixon]

If you want a super-compact carry around DSLR, then the D is not the camera you want.

Well yes, what I really what is something ME or OM2 sized, that takes great, cheap, interchangeable manual glass and has a 6MP sensor etc.

But AFAIK, it doesn't exist.

[edit] read your post properly now! - I want the DS not the D.

 

[James]

I'm looking at older K lenses - I'm not too worried about auto focus, and for wide angle and decent light, DOF is usually fine anyway.

There won't be many wide angle K lenses that actually produce a wide angle shot. Wide angle (in 35mm film terms) start at 35mm, which requires a 24mm lens. These are readily available in the second-hand market. But get closer to the film equivalent of 28mm and below, will require 18mm and lower. I used to have a K18/3.5, but these are both rare and expensive.

James

 

[andc]

BTW *istDS comes in 2 flavours -- second model (DS2 I think?) has a Pentamirror not a Pentaprism. You want the first one if at all possible.

Actually, the Ds2 is the best of the *ist models and is definitely the one to get. It still has the pentamirror, but has a slightly larger LCD than the Ds.
The DL series is where it all went downhill.

 

[RichardH]

There won't be many wide angle K lenses that actually produce a wide angle shot. Wide angle (in 35mm film terms) start at 35mm, which requires a 24mm lens. These are readily available in the second-hand market. But get closer to the film equivalent of 28mm and below, will require 18mm and lower. I used to have a K18/3.5, but these are both rare and expensive.

James

Which is why (IMO) for "get you by" use, the 18-55 kit lens is handy to keep hold of, just for it's wide angle capabilities.

As said above, I believe the DS is smaller than the D, so it may be worth looking out for one of these secondhand. With a 1.4 50mm manual lens on, it is fairly compact, though of course you're having to shoot at the equiovalent of around 80mm.

All these comments remind me NOT to be seduced by the latest thing, and to keep the DS.

 

[Patrick Dixon]

Just think Richard, I could give you £180 for it, and you could buy something really good ...

 

[Sid and Coke]

Also consider that with a lot of these older models you can also get 'pretty much' the same camera but branded as a samsung, all made in the same factory on side by side production lines but with different badges. I would imagine that the samsung would have depreciated further and faster than the pentax equivalent, so really depends on what you want to buy; the camera or the badge.....

The diffs between the Samsung and Pentax models are cosmetic and a little bit of software diffs, (and i even read in some places that some folk actually prefer the samsung software ! ).

 

[demandcurve]

What's the difference between an *istD and an *istDS?

The *istD was Pentaxes first Digital aimed at the top end. The *istDL was their next/later DSLR aimed at the lower end of the market. The *istDS is basically a DL body fitted with better internals similar in spec to the D: for example a bright glass pentaprism & the D multi-point focussing rather than the folded plastic unit in the DL (and most other consumer DSLRs). The DS"2" is a firmware upgrade of the DS, which can be downloaded from Pentax website to upgrade the DS.

I use both old fixed focal length and modern zooms. I found the latest premium priced APS-C zooms from Sigma 17-70f2.8 and Tamron SP 17-50 f2.8 easily as sharp as the fixed focal lengths of the 80s & 90s, such as my Pentax 50f1.4A and Tamron SP 90f2.5 (at least from f4 onwards). I still use my primes but only for lightness, not for better image quality.

Finally, if you like old lenses consider changing the focussing screen of the D or DS for old-style split image. I did and love it. Various companies make focussing screens and the quality varies a lot, my one is remanufactured from Pentax K1000 focussing screens (the DSLR screen is smaller than 35mm and is cut down to size/shape). Fitting is a real faff - keeping dust out is a major exercise - but I'm pleased with the result. And auto focussing is unaffected. Think it only cost about £20. Watch out though, many of the screens out there are wrong size, often too thin (need spacers to fit) or too thick!

Tony

 

[andc]

All these comments remind me NOT to be seduced by the latest thing, and to keep the DS.

Are you sure you don't want to go the latest/greatest route? I have a K20D for sale, Patrick is after a DS... sounds like we could have ourselves a nice little game of musical cameras
FWIW, the K20D is irrefutably a big improvement over the Ds in all areas except size.

 

[demandcurve]

FWIW, the K20D is irrefutably a big improvement over the Ds in all areas except size.

It's all a matter of budget. In my view pictures are mostly about the photographer, the lens and the image processing process, not the camera. I have taken pictures with several bodies and my ancient Canon G3 and now, afterwards, I couldn't distinguish which body took which shot just looking at the image. What I'm suggesting is it is important to balance your photo equipment. Not many would buy a £5,000 CD player to front-end their £500 amp, bell wire & speaker system but you see this scenario so often in photography.

 

[andc]

It's all a matter of budget. In my view pictures are mostly about the photographer, the lens and the image processing process, not the camera.

Well obviously photography is primarily about the photographer. That doesn't change the fact that the K20D is a much better camera than the *ist Ds though. Even if it didn't takes better, technically speaking, pictures (it does), it still handles much better. But I take your point, if you're a bad photographer it doesn't matter what you shoot with - but I don't think the inverse is entirely true.
For example I think there are some instances where gear provides possibilities that are just otherwise unavailable, no matter how good a photographer you are. I'd put image stabilisation, large apertures, focal length and decent high-ISO performance in that category.

 

[Patrick Dixon]

In my view pictures are mostly about the photographer, the lens and the image processing process, not the camera.

Sadly you're right - with the photographer being the most important of those.

Much as I like old film cameras and the idea of 'making' a picture, I don't think film really helps me improve my picture taking skills - because the process is so slow, the feedback loop is somewhat disconnected in my case.

So I'm hoping that a DLSR might improve the results I get with a film camera too.

 

[Patrick Dixon]

Given the lack of *istDs on the secondhand market, I'm wondering if a K10D would be a better choice? It's a bit more expensive (and a bit bigger?) though, and a new K-m with lens is only £300 ....

 

[RichardH]

Patrick, would you like to borrow mine for a week or two to have a play? Though the cost of shipping it back and forth would take a bit of a chunk from your budget, I guess....

 

[Patrick Dixon]

Richard, that's an exceptionally generous offer.

I'll have a ponder and pm you in due course ... if that's alright.

 

[andc]

Given the lack of *istDs on the secondhand market, I'm wondering if a K10D would be a better choice? It's a bit more expensive (and a bit bigger?) though, and a new K-m with lens is only £300 ....

If you don't mind the extra size the K10D is an excellent choice. AFAIK it has the same control layout as the K20D, which is one of the best handling DSLRs I've owned.
If you're planning on using manual glass you don't want a k-m IMHO as the viewfinder is not up to K10D/K20D/ist Ds/ist D standard. It's small but liveable for AF use, I wouldn't fancy manually focus with it.

 

[James]

Given the lack of *istDs on the secondhand market, I'm wondering if a K10D would be a better choice? It's a bit more expensive (and a bit bigger?) though, and a new K-m with lens is only £300 ....

Whilst the linear dimensions of the K10D are only slightly bigger than the *istDs, it feels significantly bigger and heavier. I prefer the *istDs and find it closer in size to my LX.

James

 

[andc]

A rough size comparison (the difference will be bigger as the K200D is a little bigger than the *ist Ds):

Another thing to note is that I found AF on the K20D better than on the *ist Ds. AFAIK the K10D AF is almost identical to the K20D. The *ist Ds is a nice camera, it's just that if size and budget are not a concern then I do think the K10D is a better buy.

 

[Patrick Dixon]

Thanks for that. The (lack of) size of the *istDs is definitely attractive, but then the K10D has more pixels and improved features etc. The weatherproof sealing of the K10D would also be nice, as I'd like to take it down the field with me without worrying.

K10Ds seem to go on eBay for £200-£270ish (with lens) depending on condition etc, so maybe a decent one at around £230 would be worth getting.

Is the AF FA 50mm 1.4 as good as the older ones? Since As and Ms go for £80-90, and a new AF one is about £50 more, maybe it's better to buy new.

 

[matthewr]

Tha AF lens is optically identical I think, but the manual ones are way cooler and much better made.

If you buy a body I have a 50/1.4M you can have for free Patrick. It's just sat around the place doing not very much.

 

[Patrick Dixon]

Thanks Matthew - that's very generous of you too.