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Hypex Ncore - as good as all that?

Alan Brown

Alan Brown

Registered LUser
A friend is rebuilding some NVA amps for me on the quiet ('build' thread here), because RD hates me and my amp-man doesn't want any hassle from him. We have already started with some good parts, Avondale bridge rectifiers and Kendeil capacitors.

He has also mentioned that Ncores might be a more sensible alternative, both from the POV or reliability & support (granted) and that he reckons they would sound better.

Now we already have all this gear, some of which could be sold to part fund some Ncores, the rest of which could power Ncores (so no need for the matching switching PS). There is also a Hypex build thread, with two examples to see. The UD version with the torroids I have heard for myself (in another system) and they are very fine indeed.

So, would Ncore monoblocks be the best way to 'my last amplifier ever'? :) Just wondered if any of you had experience with them. Thanks all.
 
I can't comment on NVA amps - my opinion of the company and the man behind it would cloud my judgement.

I have been running my pair of Ncore NC400s for a week now and they are every bit as good as the more rational viewers would have you believe. I have pretty revealing speakers and an impeccable Sabre DAC source and moving from Hypex UCD amps to the Ncores has provided a very worthwhile upgrade.

They now do exactly what I'd expect from a high end solid state amp. Depth, detail, dynamics. No sweet distortion, no haze. They do run a little warmer than you might expect, but that is in line with the size of the heatsink, so sensble implementation will see them reliable and trouble free for many years I'd expect.

I have run a pair of UCD180ADs with linear PSUs for 7 years and they've never missed a beat and I thought they were pretty damn good. Ncore actually takes a big step forward.

I would say that you need to be careful in implementing a linear supply due to the current characteristics of Class D amps in general and the Ncore implementation in particular. The SMPS has been carefully matched to the needs of the amp.

On drawback is they were out of stock again last week, so not sure if you can get them soon.

In answer to your last question (last amp ever?) it depends. I'm still adjusting to them but today I don@t see any way of bettering the NCores (even if I were to spend a LOT of pennies on something from the Yank Tank school of audiophilia.)

Regards

Mark
 
MarkW said:
I have run a pair of UCD180ADs with linear PSUs for 7 years and they've never missed a beat and I thought they were pretty damn good. Ncore actually takes a big step forward.
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They still are pretty d. good those 180AD's. ;)
 
Not used the Ncore amps myself but I have a pair of UCD400 with matching SMPS and they were a significant upgrade from my old Naim system.

As the Ncore are the next generation from Hypex then they must be incredible.

With a little effort you can build yourself some truly reference amps for a fraction of the cost of "high end" gear.
 
Have ncores and I'm REALLY happy both in sound and support (came from cyrus monos over hypex ucd400 to ncores). I read quite some stuff on the diyaudio thread and most people suggest to use the matching SMPS to avoid any trouble. Building the monoblocs with those SMPS is trivial.
 
I've been tempted by then in the past. When the class D amps start accepting a direct PCM signal I'll definately jump ship. No more DAC
 
Thanks for the comments chaps, I have noted the lack of support for the traditional flat earth circuit with heavy duty PS. No one has even suggested an Avondale build, which I must admit has been playing across my mind.

There is an interesting read over on whatsbestforum about class D and the Ncore, someone has built a monster power supply for it.

Are the parts I have already suitable for a Ncore linear supply? (Big 30-0-30 transformer, Avondale bridges and a bunch of 63v Kendeils). I might just approach my amp builder and ask him to change tack.
 
There's certainly no reason a large conventional linear supply cannot or should not work with an Class D (analogue switching) amp, like the NCore. In fact it's virtually guaranteed to work well and better than a generic smps.

It's just in this case Hypex design and make both amp and the SMPS to work together. That's not a level of control many manufacturers have, at all.


NB many simpler class D amps have pretty poor-to-shocking PSRR, because simply switching the output stage between the rails gives you as about 6dB of PSRR. Obviously the more sophisticated examples like Hypex deal with this.
 
I understand Bruno reckons the Ncore is pretty well immune to different PS, but it seems that a lot of people are very happy with the changes they have been able to achieve. I understand that Bruno's Mola Mola amps have a linear supply too.
 
Linear supplies work great with UCDs, so I wouldn't argue against that route, but bear in mind the input stage needs a supply also. The Hypex SMPS supplies generate a secondary supply of about +/-21-23V to feed the front end. For the NCore you want about 63V on each rail for the main amp stage.

You can either view the additional front end requirement as a pain or an opportunity to do something sweet.

The SMPS600 designed for the Ncore is quite expensive as SMPS goes, but the SMPS400 designed originally to match the UCD400 works just as well (that's Bruno's view) as long as you don@t need all the power the amp can deliver. In my case I have a reasonably efficient speaker set up, in smallish room, so it isn't an issue for me. The pay off is over two hundred euros saved.

Just in case I didn't make myself clear above - NCores are extremely good amps.

I'e owned NC200 amps with an Avondale Grad1 pre. Very good - but I preferred UCDs and Ncore is significantly better.
 
MarkW said:
I'e owned NC200 amps with an Avondale Grad1 pre. Very good - but I preferred UCDs and Ncore is significantly better.
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You weren't supposed to say that, you were supposed to say they're much of a muchness and they could gently slide off my radar ;)
 
James Evans said:
You weren't supposed to say that, you were supposed to say they're much of a muchness and they could gently slide off my radar ;)
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Hi James

NC200 based amps are certainly worthwhile, very musical and involving.

But if you want that little extra, Ncore is hard to beat - especially at the price.

Mark
 
My friend runs his UD180s with a croft micro 25 pre (and it sounds great) - would the Hypex's be equally happy with a passive attenuator? I happily use a Lightspeed at the moment.

Also, having read through some of the technical material on the Hypex site (and understanding about 2% of it), could someone explain to me the potential advantage of the low output impedance figures (0.7 milliohms)?

They would be driving Royd RR3s, which are (a shocking) 83db/metre.

Thanks again chaps, for taking the time to explain this to a technical dunce.
 
Low impedance increases the damping factor of the output stage (apparently) which is a good thing. It also means less losses, better transient current performance and reduces cable dependence. I think it accounts for the UCD amps high frequency performance (from a distortion viewpoint).

Passive attentuators can work (I've used several over the years) but there are definite gains in using the balanced input scheme, which means more work in creating a viable and matched attenuator. I gave up on analogue attenuation - digital volume control is the way to go if you can do it. Obviously that's difficult if your main source is a TT.
 
Agree with the on low impedance and would also point out that for most it will be utterly swamped by the speaker cable contributing up to half an ohm to the whole loop or so (for reasonable cable choices and reasonable lengths)

Note also that almost any amp's spectacular low output impedance claim usually increases markedly above low frequencies simply due to the way internal feedback rolls-off.

The point is - this amp definitely will not contribute ripples in the speaker response solely due to a high output z - as some choices can.
 
On the subject of cable...

This occurred to me recently, as I have a class D amp with a similarly low output impedance on order. As usual, I am building my own cable and this time have acquired some 3.25mm diameter SOLID copper. I calculate the DCR of the loop (5m approx, unfortunately) to be in the region of 16mOhm - not too bad.
 
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