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How to try and get my system to sound as good at 65dB as 80dB ?

Chris

Chris

pfm Member
a) Room - (across 3.5m x 5m)
b) Speakers (WD25TEx - 87dB)
c) Combination of Room and speakers.
d) Amp (Sugden A21SE)
e) Phono stage (breathed on Puresound P10)
f) Cartridge JAS tipped A&RP77
g) Analogue format Lps only.
h) Speaker cables
i) Power cord
j) My lug - right one useless. so hear in mono via stereo system. Often sit sideways on.
k) Other

Looking for unusual ideas and theories backed on experience.
Thanks
 
There's a reason why some amps used to have a loudness button.

Our ears don't perceive high and low frequencies the same at lower volumes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
800px-Lindos1.svg.png
 
Fair enough Paul. So those who say their systems sound great at low volumes have got better hearing at lower volumes. End of ? Or can it be improved by defined methods or is it a question of lucky combinations ? For example I have read that the Sugden sounds great at low volumes but if that is so, IMO mine does not compensate for other things elsewhere. What about stand mounts versus floorstanders ?
 
Those systems that sound alright at 65dB might well sound 'orrible at 80dB plus. Many a too-loud shop demo can point that up. ( I well remember an ear-bleed Naim/Epos ES14 demo that put me off for life!)

My system 'wakes up' considerably as the volume rises into anti-social territory, anti hearing-life territory too. No tone controls here so I just have to get used to the sound at lower and more sociable volumes.

It all depends on 'everything', but the speakers have to be biggest factor. Borrow an amp with tone controls or loudness controls and see if you can make the sound you want?

We all know too that late night listening often works 'well' at lower volumes than earlier in the day - something to do with lack of background noise etc - maybe a wine-chilled ambience too.
 
The lower the noise floor the better IME, not necessarily a vinyl strength? If I’m listening at lower levels I generally pay more attention & it’s a different experience.

Try turning the lights down?
 
I’d frame it in a slightly different way. To my mind most people turn their systems up as they are incapable of scale and impact without volume. I’d address this either with larger and more naturally dynamic speakers, or sitting far closer. Turning the lights off and listening in the dark helps a lot too.
 
I was going to say exactly what Tony said. If you listen quietly, bigger speakers are far more satisfying, they're way more capable of scale at low volumes. My Kef 104/2s do not need a loudness button or bass control at low volumes, neither, I suspect, do 15" Tannoys. They should also sound great turned up a bit more in the OPs 3.5x5m room, which is a little shorter my main listening room - preferably firing across well away from the corners.

Big speakers will almost s certainly start to sound a bit too fruity above 85dB or so, without room treatment or DSP, in smaller rooms, though.

I have tried nearfield setups with small speakers in larger rooms, but I find them very unsatisfying as the bass i always limited and the sweetspot is tiny, keeping you rooted to one spot bolt upright on the sofa, which feels a bit weird to me.
 
My NAP 250.2 with my isobaric monitors sound great at low and high volume in my small room.
I guess this is due to the huge power supply.
That justified the purchase of this amp.
To me, large rooms need lots of power AND big speakers.
 
Gervais Cote said:
My NAP 250.2 with my isobaric monitors sound great at low and high volume in my small room.
I guess this is due to the huge power supply.
That justified the purchase of this amp.
To me, large rooms need lots of power AND big speakers.
Click to expand...
Big vintage Tannoy DCs or 4R conjugate load matched Kef reference Monitors are both among the biggest and most efficient speakers ever made. The OP's modest Class A Sugden would be more than enough to make them rattle the windows. It's certainly enough to sound very nice indeed at their more modest volume requirements.
 
Chris said:
a) Room - (across 3.5m x 5m)
b) Speakers (WD25TEx - 87dB)
c) Combination of Room and speakers.
d) Amp (Sugden A21SE)
e) Phono stage (breathed on Puresound P10)
f) Cartridge JAS tipped A&RP77
g) Analogue format Lps only.
h) Speaker cables
i) Power cord
j) My lug - right one useless. so hear in mono via stereo system. Often sit sideways on.
k) Other

Looking for unusual ideas and theories backed on experience.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Not being funny, but have you considered a mono system?
 
foxwelljsly said:
Big vintage Tannoy DCs or 4R conjugate load matched Kef reference Monitors are both among the biggest and most efficient speakers ever made. The OP's modest Class A Sugden would be more than enough to make them rattle the windows. It's certainly enough to sound very nice indeed at their more modest volume requirements.
Click to expand...
Makes perfect sense but not sure you get all the woomph of bass notes at low volume though which big amps do.
 
Gervais Cote said:
My NAP 250.2 with my isobaric monitors sound great at low and high volume in my small room.
I guess this is due to the huge power supply.
That justified the purchase of this amp.
To me, large rooms need lots of power AND big speakers.
Click to expand...

Gervais Cote said:
Makes perfect sense but not sure you get all the woomph of bass notes at low volume though which big amps do.
Click to expand...

All complete tosh.
 
my speakers are obviously not Tannoys nor Kefs but they do have Seas 10 inch paper woofers which although in a sort of aperiodic loading into the lower compartment and totally boom free up against the rear wall, probably are lacking in very low bass. Maybe I need a bit of boom to flesh out lower frequencies.
 
Woodface said:
The lower the noise floor the better IME...
Click to expand...

I'd include environmental noise with that. Maybe some room treatment is in order, or at least more soft things. Certainly a rug if there isn't one already. Eliminate noise from fans and appliances.
 
As above, add a loudness button or tone controls, could you drop a Schiit Loki of some flavour in the mix? Now who is it that has a Loki on here, I wish I could remember, I am sure he will be along in a bit!
 
A good amp with tone controls is going to cost serious money to better your Sugden, especially at low volume. Start nearer field if you can.

Nonetheless, I don’t sit near field and am quite happy to listen at 65dB average, peaks around 72dB.
 
No offence intended to the OP but the hard facts of having hearing in only one ear mean that even a 3020 will be WAY better than required. It also no doubt has a bearing on the low levels problem.
 
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