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How do I start a digital music library?

I haven't used any of the streaming services recommendations yet on expanding your listening to new types of music, but I have found Radio Paradise has exposed me to quite a few new musical directions.

You'll hear a lot of stuff you won't like but having it on the background isn't an issue.

If you're not aware of it, it's advert free with little disk jockey commentary, CD quality streaming and it's free of charge but you do asked for a contribution from time to time - which I have done.

It's available in multiple computer platforms and in streaming devices.
 
Hcanning said:
I would also not concentrate too much on "high res" or "studio master" formats, as I don't believe they offer anything over CD-quality music in real world situations, but that's just me.
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I would agree with that. I have done a direct comparison between different bit rates and can hardly hear any difference - I'm 58 with better than average hearing - I do get that tested at Boots for free.

I'm listening to a Naim NSC 222 and active ATC 50s.
I also can't hear any difference between the Naim and my Mac Mini.

I've a mid price LP12 - about £12k - and do hear a difference between that and digital.
I also hear a difference to different pressings and 45 rpm versus 33rpm.
 
dalryc said:
I would agree with that. I have done a direct comparison between different bit rates and can hardly hear any difference - I'm 58 with better than average hearing - I do get that tested at Boots for free.

I'm listening to a Naim NSC 222 and active ATC 50s.
I also can't hear any difference between the Naim and my Mac Mini.

I've a mid price LP12 - about £12k - and do hear a difference between that and digital.
I also hear a difference to different pressings and 45 rpm versus 33rpm.
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Me too. I'm 37 and I would also consider my hearing as very good. And yet try as I might, I've never been able to hear any difference between 16/44 and high-res copies of the same album, or even in many cases a decent MP3. Doesn't matter if I try using my hifi, or my headphones (Sennheiser HD600s), or whatever. DACs and streamers also all sound the same to me. Speakers and amps are where the real differences lie. I just like playing with new toys 😂
 
dalryc said:
I would agree with that. I have done a direct comparison between different bit rates and can hardly hear any difference - I'm 58 with better than average hearing - I do get that tested at Boots for free.

I'm listening to a Naim NSC 222 and active ATC 50s.
I also can't hear any difference between the Naim and my Mac Mini.

I've a mid price LP12 - about £12k - and do hear a difference between that and digital.
I also hear a difference to different pressings and 45 rpm versus 33rpm.
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That might tell you something about the Naim unit's ability to work well as a music server. And I agree that the difference between 44/16 and the higher rates is often quite marginal but it's there and I always find it worthwhile, especially when an annual membership to Qobuz means the cost to buy the higher res files is often lower than the cost of a regular copy without the annual membership.
 
Hcanning said:
Me too. I'm 37 and I would also consider my hearing as very good. And yet try as I might, I've never been able to hear any difference between 16/44 and high-res copies of the same album, or even in many cases a decent MP3. Doesn't matter if I try using my hifi, or my headphones (Sennheiser HD600s), or whatever. DACs and streamers also all sound the same to me. Speakers and amps are where the real differences lie. I just like playing with new toys 😂
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I’d say you’re largely correct in your assessment (having done some significant bake-offs via pfm a few years ago where folk struggled to differentiate a Sonos device as source vs an Auralic Vega which was the darling of the time). That’s not to say that I’m in the all digital sounds the same camp - I’m not - but the sighted night and day differences folk report are largely “exaggerated” can I say?

Anyway… main reason for posting was to say that one mustn’t confuse formats (vinyl, CD, Hi-Res digital) with mastering differences. Mastering is key - the formats rather less so.
 
Interesting thread and very relevant for me at present as I’m coming to the conclusion I’ll abandon my 560GB iTunes/Apple Lossless library. It represents years of CD ripping, but I’ve come to the conclusion it serves no use beyond supplying a library from which to compile a subset for my iPhone for mobile listening. If I want to play a CD or record I get the CD or record and play it. That way I get to enjoy the packaging, the collector/speculation aspect etc. I never used the iTunes library at home at all. It is basically a waste of effort and hard disk space. This has been compounded now I’ve taken out a Qobuz subscription. I can see no logical reason retaining stored digital files unless they are a mastering you specifically want, and in that scenario I’d prefer just to play the CD. I certainly won’t be selling my CD collection.

I’m going to keep my old library on a backup in case I ever change my mind, but I can’t imagine ever doing so. It is a fundamentally obsolete way of working IMO given streaming is so cheap (Qobuz is a tenner a month if you buy a year up front). That said streaming has its problems. I thought my network was pretty good, but it chokes out on 24/192, it just can’t do it reliably, and I’ve not figured out how to force Qobuz (via MConnect) to send a lower resolution, so there is a fair bit of stuff I just can’t play at present.

PS When compiling a local library don‘t underestimate the sheer extent of the ball-ache to get it to display correctly, e.g. the right cover art for the specific rip, artists sorted by surname etc. In iTunes it involves manually setting the sort criteria for each rip. I just can’t cope with stuff sorted by first name, it looks so incompetent. With online streaming you are just searching and playing, so it is far less triggering. With classical it is even more of a nightmare.
 
I can see no logical reason retaining stored digital files unless they are a mastering you specifically want, and in that scenario I’d prefer just to play the CD. I certainly won’t be selling my CD collection.
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Well one logical reason might be less room being taken up by storage. My listening room is only 3.5m by 3.6m so space is at a premium and my music server holds about 3000+ albums which would otherwise take up a lot of space and compromise the room aesthetics.
Another might be ease of browsing; navigating CDs stored on a shelf when all you can see is the thin edge of a jewel case is both far more cumbersome and far less rewarding. I agree though that holding a CD or vinyl jacket is pleasant.
Another reason might be it sounds better; playing a bit perfect copy of a CD might offer better sound than the CDP (I stress the word might here).

a few years ago where folk struggled to differentiate a Sonos device as source vs an Auralic Vega
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I don't question this but a few things spring to mind. One is, that was a few years ago. The second, I'm not sure Auralic is an especially good example here; maybe I've just been spoiled because I'm lucky enough to own a music server that has been regularly reported as being as good as the Taiko Extreme for one third the price? Third, it's one comparison so making the assumption that all music servers must be equally as bland as the Auralic is a big step. Finally, I might well be exaggerating the differences but how would you tell; compared to what? When I took delivery of mine I had been testing a £22k pre-amp in my system and hearing the difference it made over just using the volume pot in my DAC. That was a substantial difference - let's quantify it as being a value of X. Removing the very expensive pre-amp but then replacing the Macbook Pro as music server with the one I got from Lucas made a difference of X as well.

PS When compiling a local library don‘t underestimate the sheer extent of the ball-ache to get it to display correctly, e.g. the right cover art for the specific rip, artists sorted by surname etc.
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This is where Roon really scores well. All of that is taken care of the first time you set up the Roon Server; it's so easy and so quick and pretty much flawless.
 
I’ve met several people who ripped their entire cd collection onto a hard drive/NAS & now wish they hadn’t bothered due to the time it took & that they’re now streaming music with Qobuz or Tidal.
Unless you are hyper-critical, the difference between the SQ of a cd ripped in FLAC etc compared to streamed using qobuz or tidal is extremely small & can come down to which version & master is being used. For my money, the vast majority of SQ difference is down to the DAC being used, rather than the digital supply to it, ie from a cd drive vs a stream. I respect that others find bigger differences than I hear.
Depending on your musical taste, there may well be a few cd’s in your collection that aren’t available via streaming, but 99% of the time it’s not an issue for most people.
 
I started streaming audio from my own ripped CD collection almost 20yrs ago, ripping to iTunes, then playing back through a Squeezebox2. I later converted everything from Apple Lossless to FLAC as I wanted an open source compression algorithm and FLAC seemed like it was here to stay. Now I have about 1TB of FLAC files on my local network storage and a brace of RPi based players. I also stream using Tidal currently, but also have used Qobuz in the past and Spotify (Quality of Spotify playback is not up to critical listening, but fine for music discovery, it also probably has the best interface for finding music). A significant amount of stuff I listen to is not on Tidal or Qobuz, and I've had a number of things on there I have on my playlists that have since been removed, so no longer there. This has shown me streaming to be not a permanent solution for keeping music to listen to, I also listen on my commute a lot, so you need a local store of music as streaming on the move doesn't really work. This has encouraged me to keep a DRM free local store of my own music.

I may have a play with Apple music as you can upload and integrate your own library into it too I believe, and I've now bought back into the Apple eco system, but I'm aware getting out of iTunes and to FLAC many years ago royally screwed up a lot of my meta data.
 
Unless you are hyper-critical
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Or have a very revealing system, there's always that possibility. But I agree it isn't a huge difference, maybe 5-10% if I were to try and apply some objective measurement to it.

Broadly speaking the difference is in the overall dynamics with locally played offering a greater sense of presence, broader sound stage and more leading edge impact. The streamed services sound flat and a bit lifeless in comparison.
 
geetee1972 said:
Qobuz doesn't offer DSD, which is a new format for encoding music data that is considerably superior to PCM (which is the format all other music will be in). That said, none of the download/streaming services offer DSD; for that you have to look to specialist services which are purchase only, i.e. no streaming option.
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For clarity, DSD dates from the mid-1990s and IIRC is the format used on SACD discs.
 
I'm now thinking that as music is definitely a permanent and important thing in my life and that maybe I am trying to be too protective and controlling of my 'owned' music. Perhaps I should not stress about building a digital library and embrace streaming more. When I listen on bluetooth headphones I am normally travelling, so my phone and downloaded music can stand in for that, but when I am with my system I should just stream.
 
geetee1972 said:
Or have a very revealing system, there's always that possibility. But I agree it isn't a huge difference, maybe 5-10% if I were to try and apply some objective measurement to it.

Broadly speaking the difference is in the overall dynamics with locally played offering a greater sense of presence, broader sound stage and more leading edge impact. The streamed services sound flat and a bit lifeless in comparison.
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That may be true.
I consider that I have a fairly revealing system, Linn Akurate & Katalyst DAC with ATC SCM40a’s.
However my hearing especially over about 9khz is not great, sadly.
For me, I’d say maybe 5% difference at the very most, and sometimes that may well come down to version/ master comparison & minor volume/gain differences.
I have a mate with a very nice Accuphase/ Dynaudio set up & he hears differences between his Accuphase CDP & a MacMini stream going through the DAC in the Accuphase CDP. I have to concentrate really hard to pick up on the same things he hears.
Think I’m getting to the point where I‘m just no longer chasing that last elusive 1, 2 or 3%.
Vinyl for that tactile & involving experience, Streaming for the great sound & convenience.
For me, CD’s & ripping them to a HD is stuck in no-mans land between the two.
Although with lots of people offloading their cd collections, for those who stick with CD’s there’s probably never been a better time to buy discs.
 
I think you have most of this already but I might as well chime in:
- I used to have a Bluesound Node 2i but moved to the Innuos Pulse. This streams into a dCS Puccini DAC/upscaler (to DSD)
- I use iTunes (well, Apple Music these days) to rip my CDs as ALAC. BluOS and Innuos Sense control apps are both agnostic about ALAC and FLAC. I use a browser to find the correct artwork as I’m fussy. I copy the image and paste it into the artwork tab of the tracks on iTunes/Music. I don’t have or need a paid Apple Music subscription
- the stored files are on a Synology NAS with 2 x 6TB WD Red drives which are fast and quiet and energy-efficient and the NAS plugs into my BT router (nowhere near the hifi system)
- I also use Qobuz as a streaming service and am delighted with the catalogue and with the sound quality which is now every bit as good as playing local rips or actual silver discs.
 
dalryc said:
That's irrelevant - if they go under there's other streaming services.
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The point here is that streamed music is outside your control - it can be removed from service at any time for any reason, for rights issues or because the master rights owner has decided they now want their titles to be at a premium price point, whatever. Once you own a copy of a recording it can't be taken away (although recording media can fail, of course).
 
kensalriser said:
The point here is that streamed music is outside your control - it can be removed from service at any time for any reason, for rights issues or because the master rights owner has decided they now want their titles to be at a premium price point, whatever. Once you own a copy of a recording it can't be taken away (although recording media can fail, of course).
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True - I've only had that issue with one artist and just bought a CD copy of it and ripped it for convenience.
 
I use streaming for the majority of my listening, but I have gone to the trouble of ripping my CD collection to an SSD based NAS for three reasons:
1. Now have lots more space in my listening room - this is also our sitting room, and this has been a very popular move (also allows more space for vinyl)
2. Quite a few gaps in the catalogues of the various streaming services, although they are improving - for instance, no Tortoise available at all until recently
3. I live in the country, and cannot rely on broadband connection all the time - several times last year I had to fall back on locally stored files, which fortunately is no hardship (and I really like being able to cue up a whole evening of music from my own collection)

I would add one cautionary note - my previous (Qnap) NAS was attacked by ransomware and I had to re-rip everything... I did this using a single disc Synology NAS which has two physically separate backups, and is 100% restricted to access via the local network - I do not interact with IT in my daily life at all, unless you count my telephone, and I completely misunderstood the concept of so called "data security" 🤬

And yes, ripping CDs is a massive shag, ripping them twice infinitely more so.
 
The benefit of SSDs over spinning hard disks is that they are quieter - maybe just a fan running?
I have two 5400rpm NAS devices and they are not designed to be quiet.
If I sit them on a table or sideboard they are not isolated from them which tends to amplify the noise.
I have both of them in my attic where my network switch is, hanging from the roof by fishing line!
 
dalryc said:
The benefit of SSDs over spinning hard disks is that they are quieter - maybe just a fan running?
I have two 5400rpm NAS devices and they are not designed to be quiet.
If I sit them on a table or sideboard they are not isolated from them which tends to amplify the noise.
I have both of them in my attic where my network switch is, hanging from the roof by fishing line!
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I hope it doesn't get too hot in your attic in the summer!
 
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