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Horrendous crimes and musicians.

stairpost

stairpost

Average at best.
Good evening all,

Just wondered what everyone thought of the fact that the Lost Prophets catalogue is still available on Spotify? Given the absolutely abhorrent crimes that Ian Watkins committed, should music providers be expected to have a moral obligation not to sell us his music? After a quick google it appears he still collects his royalties.

Rich.
 
Interesting question.

I guess the issue is 1) who do you trust to censor your music if you think it should be censored, and 2) where do you draw the line - The Who? Michael Jackson (alleged..Martin Basher connection remember..)? Sex Pistols? Fela Kuti? Leadbelly? The Beatles? ;)

Personally I think you can and should self censor if you so desire..
 
I can imagine that there is a huge portion of the music listening public that have no idea of the crimes committed by Watkins, I think that is where industry morals (should there be any) might play a part.
 
stairpost said:
Good evening all,

Just wondered what everyone thought of the fact that the Lost Prophets catalogue is still available on Spotify? Given the absolutely abhorrent crimes that Ian Watkins committed, should music providers be expected to have a moral obligation not to sell us his music? After a quick google it appears he still collects his royalties.

Rich.
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The problem with this is that there are other individuals (the rest of the band) who contributed to these recordings and rely on the royalties to provide an income, they shouldn't suffer in my opinion.

That aside why anyone would / could listen to this stuff given his crimes I don't know?
 
robs said:
Personally I think you can and should self censor if you so desire..
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That’s my view. I can however see an argument for blocking or seizing that person’s earnings whilst that person imprisoned for a crime, e.g. maybe all royalties should be diverted to victims families etc, but I certainly don’t believe in censoring art. Obviously no-platforming is perfectly valid, e.g. when time served and they are released no way in hell would I want to put on a Ian Watkins, Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris gig!

To my mind there is a huge difference between successful conviction and imprisonment and mere accusation, slur, innuendo etc. The last thing we need is a court of public opinion IMHO.

It is an interesting dilemma as a second hand record dealer. I certainly list bands with somewhat controversial pasts, e.g. Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson etc. I own and enjoy some of these records myself. To be honest I’d likely have listed a Lostprophets CD without knowing as I’d never heard of them until this thread. Would I list say a mint original Gary Glitter album? I think I would as they are very rare in that condition, he’d obviously make no money from it, and everyone knows who he is and what he did. It is an artefact of a time in the exact same way say a statue of a Tory slave trader is. I don’t believe in rewriting history, so I feel it may have value beyond landfill. Mostly this sort of stuff is all but valueless, though there are some sought after Charles Manson albums e.g. Lie (Discogs). Maybe the thing to do would be to list such things but donate the sale price to Children In Need or whatever. Again I draw a massive line between conviction and accusation, slur or innuendo. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
 
Queen (and others) for playing Sun City, Bowie and Clapton for supporting fascism, Spector perhaps - there'd be a very long list.
 
As I said in another thread, I felt very uncomfortable owning recordings by Philip Pickett after his convictions for rape and sexual assault, and have since given them to a charity shop. Less so with a couple of compilation albums with Jimmy Saville's photo on the cover, as he had nothing to with making the music itself.
 
gavreid said:
they'd be a very long list.
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I suspect longer than very long, and who is the judge about what constitutes "horrendous" anyway?

It is maybe a stange reflection on how power (and opportunity) corrupt when so many offences seem to be sexual of one sort or another........ I wonder what that says about us all?
 
There are many musicians who were not convicted anything but probably should have been. E.G. John Martyn, Jimmy Page.

I think this Watkins fella is a next level offender & you have to wonder how people in the band didn’t realise he was a bit iffy.

Spotify is an interesting one, I imagine they will probably not add his music into their playlists & actively give the band coverage.
 
I honestly never knew anything about Ian Watkins. I have found over the years that ignorance is bliss when it comes to the personal lives of many of the artists (authors, musicians, painters, architects, etc) whose work I admire. I could stare at a Caravaggio all day long, but the man himself was wretched in every sense of the word. I prefer to let the art speak for itself. Human beings are generally awful creatures who occasionally redeem themselves by creating something beautiful.
 
Vinny said:
I suspect longer than very long, and who is the judge about what constitutes "horrendous" anyway?
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He got 27 years for child sex offences. If that doesn't imply horrendous, I'd like to know what does. You probably wouldn't get that for murder.

It is maybe a stange reflection on how power (and opportunity) corrupt when so many offences seem to be sexual of one sort or another........ I wonder what that says about us all?
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I used to work with a guy whose wife was Police Child Offences Officer (or similar title), he reckoned the number of sex offences against children was horrifying. His wife went so far as to describe it as "the national pastime".
 
palasr said:
I honestly never knew anything about Ian Watkins. I have found over the years that ignorance is bliss when it comes to the personal lives of many of the artists (authors, musicians, painters, architects, etc) whose work I admire. I could stare at a Caravaggio all day long, but the man himself was wretched in every sense of the word. I prefer to let the art speak for itself. Human beings are generally awful creatures who occasionally redeem themselves by creating something beautiful.
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Some artists take something beautiful from the life of someone innocent. I'm not sure creating something beautiful balances that.
 
I bought a Rolf Harris LP from Tony L., some years before the news about him came out. I bought it for nostalgia and a bit of fun, but I think I’ll keep away from it in future…
 
Wolfmancatsup said:
I bought a Rolf Harris LP from Tony L., some years before the news about him came out. I bought it for nostalgia and a bit of fun, but I think I’ll keep away from it in future…
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I still have a fully functioning Stylophone!

PS Some ad hominem, noise and tedium removed. Bans are freely available should they be needed.
 
The forum has had some refreshingly lighter topics so I wasn’t sure what to expect opening this one. I’ll step away from the serious issues and add this a contribution to the lighter crime list

 
robs said:
Interesting question.

I guess the issue is 1) who do you trust to censor your music if you think it should be censored, and 2) where do you draw the line - The Who? Michael Jackson (alleged..Martin Basher connection remember..)? Sex Pistols? Fela Kuti? Leadbelly? The Beatles? ;)

Personally I think you can and should self censor if you so desire..
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Self censoring would prove useful when sales fall, the lack of support for the artist would speak volumes.

I think a conviction in the criminal courts is a good place to start when considering punitive action, especially regarding industry sales and promotion.
 
I smash all Rolf Harris records that get donated to the charity I volunteer for.

Same goes for black & white minstrels albums. (sure I have mentioned this before?)

I don’t look up each artist looking for criminal behaviour, but I know Rolf is a wrong un.
Gary Glitter records get smashed as well.

The manager knows that I do it, and she agrees.
 
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