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HORNS THE ULTIMATE HIFI SPEAKERS ?

Space is the Place said:
I have heard them at a few shows, they look like a lot of speaker for the money, did you add a super tweeter?
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I added a supertweeter and changed the original horn for a circular mouth tractrix (placed too high in the stand prototype).

3157946888_4ed166268c_n.jpg
 
Typical. Lots of theory and measurements, but very little experience of the real thing.

For the record I have owned the following since 1992:
1 pair of original Voigt Corner horns made in 1938 - still own.
2 pairs of Avantgarde Duos
2 pairs of Avantgarde Duo Omegas - still own one pair of G2's.
2 pairs of Avantgarde Solos
2 pairs of Avantgarde Trios
1 pair of Cessaro Liszt - still own
1 pair of Klipsch Cornwall IV - still own

These are just the horns I have owned. I have installed Avantgarde speakers in over 50 locations. I have also experience of Avantgarde Uno, Avantgarde Uno Fino, Avantgarde Mezzo Duo, Avantgarde Bass horn, Cessaro Alpha, Cessaro Beta, Cessaro Beethoven, Cessaro Wagner, Klipschorn, Nottingham Analogue horn, Living Voice Tone Scout. I have also owned all types of other Hi-Fi speakers from Magneplaner, QUAD electrostatics, Martin Logan, Apogee, Proac, Rogers, JBL, Posselt and many more, so I think I have a pretty good level of experience of all speakers including all types of horns...
 
G T Audio said:
Typical. Lots of theory and measurements, but very little experience of the real thing.

For the record I have owned the following since 1992:
1 pair of original Voigt Corner horns made in 1938 - still own.
2 pairs of Avantgarde Duos
2 pairs of Avantgarde Duo Omegas - still own one pair of G2's.
2 pairs of Avantgarde Solos
2 pairs of Avantgarde Trios
1 pair of Cessaro Liszt - still own
1 pair of Klipsch Cornwall IV - still own

These are just the horns I have owned. I have installed Avantgarde speakers in over 50 locations. I have also experience of Avantgarde Uno, Avantgarde Uno Fino, Avantgarde Mezzo Duo, Avantgarde Bass horn, Cessaro Alpha, Cessaro Beta, Cessaro Beethoven, Cessaro Wagner, Klipschorn, Nottingham Analogue horn, Living Voice Tone Scout. I have also owned all types of other Hi-Fi speakers from Magneplaner, QUAD electrostatics, Martin Logan, Apogee, Proac, Rogers, JBL, Posselt and many more, so I think I have a pretty good level of experience of all speakers including all types of horns...
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And yet you know nothing about horns... Typical.
 
iansr said:
@Si74 - Which horns do you have may I ask?
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From the original sellers post:
"
Designed by resident speaker guru Scottmoose and built by our very own master craftsman Colin Topps for sale are my Sachiko with Fostex 208 and super tweeter.
To ensure continued domestic harmony I need to get something smaller. If you have a big room then nothing, I repeat nothing, will move air like these do! As you'd expect from a quality driver like the 208 there's no shortage of finesse and detail either; they can literally make your hair stand on end and at > 96 db efficient they are great with anything class A or even low powered valve stuff.
Built from executive grade cherry pre-veneered baltic birch ply sheets and biscuit jointed for extra strength these are one solid set of cabs, no resonating panels here, they weigh in at 70kg each and are 6ft tall, L-pads and quality binding posts on the rear.
Included are Fostex 208 drivers and FT17H super tweeters."

He was shocked how small my room was. I was shocked at the sound (negatively) then thinking about it, these had been run with a flea powered 3watt valved amp built on a breadboard, hence I decided the Fostex were not even run in and would improve and boy did they, last speakers I'll ever need.
What he doesn't say is these are way bigger than the original design Sachiko Double Mouth horns with far superior drive units.
Photo on this thread;
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...t-look-like-droids.260189/page-3#post-4494847
 
tuga said:
And yet you know nothing about horns... Typical.
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I suspect that there aren't many experienced speaker designers, who inhabit these parts, I certainly don't know anything about horn design. My first job was in hi fi sales in the late 70s and i've enjoyed this hobby for 40+ years. I doubt that many dealers or enthusiasts know a great deal about speaker design or horn loading.
What's more important is knowing what you equipment and music you like to listen to. My horns sound pretty close to real music with presence and immediacy. My house is full of musical instruments and live music played pretty much every day (not by me, I hasten to add).
 
tuga said:
And yet you know nothing about horns... Typical.
Click to expand...

I am not a speaker designer, but I know the basics of horn design and enough to know what is required amplifier and system wise to get the very best from the technology. Much like most of the top racing drivers don’t know the intricacies of engine design, but that doesn’t stop them from winning races…
 
Si74 said:
From the original sellers post:
"
Designed by resident speaker guru Scottmoose and built by our very own master craftsman Colin Topps for sale are my Sachiko with Fostex 208 and super tweeter.
To ensure continued domestic harmony I need to get something smaller. If you have a big room then nothing, I repeat nothing, will move air like these do! As you'd expect from a quality driver like the 208 there's no shortage of finesse and detail either; they can literally make your hair stand on end and at > 96 db efficient they are great with anything class A or even low powered valve stuff.
Built from executive grade cherry pre-veneered baltic birch ply sheets and biscuit jointed for extra strength these are one solid set of cabs, no resonating panels here, they weigh in at 70kg each and are 6ft tall, L-pads and quality binding posts on the rear.
Included are Fostex 208 drivers and FT17H super tweeters."

He was shocked how small my room was. I was shocked at the sound (negatively) then thinking about it, these had been run with a flea powered 3watt valved amp built on a breadboard, hence I decided the Fostex were not even run in and would improve and boy did they, last speakers I'll ever need.
What he doesn't say is these are way bigger than the original design Sachiko Double Mouth horns with far superior drive units.
Photo on this thread;
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...t-look-like-droids.260189/page-3#post-4494847
Click to expand...
I've heard these speakers at one of our audio talk meets, about 10 or 12 years ago.
They are back horns, different to most of the front horns being discussed here, but not bad speakers.
I built a couple of lowther equipped back horns in the 90s. They where more difficult to get bass out of than a 208, but the 208 needs a helping hand at the top end, as usual with hi fi, you pick your comprimise.
 
G T Audio said:
I am not a speaker designer, but I know the basics of horn design and enough to know what is required amplifier and system wise to get the very best from the technology. Much like most of the top racing drivers don’t know the intricacies of engine design, but that doesn’t stop them from winning races…
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To demonstrate your expertise you just need to post diagrams and pictures. The mark of a true expert. Oh, and be really cocksure and rude as well. That always helps and is really impressive.
 
Colin L said:
To demonstrate your expertise you just need to post diagrams and pictures. The mark of a true expert. Oh, and be really cocksure and rude as well. That always helps and is really impressive.
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Why not just make things up? No one will ever know anyway...or care.
 
cooky1257 said:
I think you'll find horns are still used extensively in cinemas.
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Unfortunately not. Many used Altec Lancing A2's, A4's, A5's, A7's etc but these were all ripped out many years ago. Cinemas today use powered active speakers similar to what is used in concert arenas, similar to these below:

preview.jpg
 
I think many of the "new" Odean Cinemas use JBL thats why the sound is so good :)

https://www.jpleisure.co.uk/cat104_1.html

£2.2k for a pair of these...hmm apart from aesthetics they make "hifi" seem a bit pricey/...

3722_front_z.jpg


Complete JBL 3722 Specifications
- Frequency Range: 30Hz to 18kHz
- Sensitivity: 104dB, 2.83V @ 1m (3.3ft)
- Nominal Impedance: 4 Ω
- Rated Maximum SPL: 127dB, @ 1m (3.3 ft) 133db peak
- Bi-Amp System Input Power Handling
- HF: 50 W
- LF: 500 W
- Crossover Frequency: 1300Hz
- Dimensions (H x W x D): 1265 x 762 x 450mm (49.8 x 30 x 17.75in)
- Net Weight: 62.2 kg (137 lbs)

JBL 3722-HF High Frequency Section Specifications
- Components:
- 1x 2418H compression driver
- 1x 2374 horn flare
- 1x adjustable bracket
- Net Weight: 7.3 kg (16 lbs)
- Shipping Weight: 12.7 kg (28 lbs)

JBL 3739 Low Frequency Section Specifications
- Drivers: 2x M115H-8A, 380 mm (15 in) Ø
- Transducers: 61 mm (2.5 in) Edgewound Ribbon Voice Coil
- Input Connectors: Push terminal binding posts
- Nominal Impedance: 4 Ω
- Minimum Impedance: 2.7 Ω @ 150 Hz
- Input Power Handling (AES 2-Hour Rating): 500 W
- Recommended Amplifier: 600 W
- Free-Field Sensitivity: 104 dB SPL, 2.83V @ 1 m (3.3 ft)
- Net Weight: 54.9 kg (121 lbs)
- Shipping Weight: 63.6 kg (140 lbs)
 
I was having a read of the Lansing Heritage forum last night, lots of interesting projects going on, i'm tempted by some M2's now or a pair of the JBL 4367 which everyone seems to rate quite highly.
 
Jon, I’ve heard the 4367s and I thought they were really great. In fact it was that experience which made me get the M2s - I figured if the 4367s were that good then the M2s must be incredibly good. You are welcome to come and have a listen to the M2s, but it will be next Summer before I’m in a position to demo them.
 
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