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Horns: Klipsch vs. Altec vs. JBL vs. ???

naimnut

naimnut

Deep in the Mines of Soul
Can any one speak to the question of how these various speakers compare to eachother? I guess, to bound the question somewhat, that we should specify something like, say, Klipsch Belle's/LaScalas, or cornwalls vs. Altec 17s or 19's.

Seems to me that Altecs are hard to find--Klipsch's are also.

For those familiar with Japanese jazz clubs, do you ever see Klipsch in the clubs? Or only JBl's and Altecs?

What is the reputation of the Klipsch's in Japan? I ask because I'm guessing that the obsessed have already done much of my research...

And, if anyone would care to recommend where to start, I'd appreciate their counsel.

Markus
 
good altec horns are as good as vitavox's IMO, and the best of the vintage horns.

As midrange drivers, they need other drivers to assist. A bass driver as a minimum.

Best place to hear Altec/vitavox is Emporium in Diss.

Altec and Vitavox horns sound best with warm and generous sounding valve amplification IMO.

JBL produce some outstanding 3 and 4 way studio monitors. Sold mostly in USA, they are harder to hear in the UK than Altec/Vitavox.

Joel said JBL 'lead from the bass' and Altec (and Vitavox) 'lead from the top'.. in terms of presentation. That seems fair.

Large JBL's would be my preference for dance/rock/reggae etc. You need a big room to carry them off IMO. Modern JBL horns sound less coloured than vintage horns.

I think its best to hear both, if you can.

If you have the space (approx 20 x 14 as a minimum) and the budget £3,500 + then I would look at a pair of speakers like Mikes.

Altec/Vitavox/Tannoy can be bought for £1200-£1500 ish, and you get a remarkable amount of speaker for your money. It often takes another £500 or so to get them on-song.
 
Hoo boy, what a question. First of all, if you run chrome bumper or olive Naim amps, forget about high efficiency speakers, too much noise (no idea how the current stuff does on this front, from some review measurements I suspect it's still too noisy).

Having just taken a look at your profile, I gather the human voice will be important to you. That's a strike against older Klipsch design, none of which have ever sounded convincing on voices to me.

My suggestion would be to just get something, aynthing, from JBL or Altec. You're in the US, finding something there shouldn't be hard at all. That will give you a basis from which to ask other people and ask for comparisons. Me, I could live with both JBLs and Altecs and it would be more a case of assembling a sympathetic system around them. I generally agree with Chris's assessment above, and th quote from Joel.

From the questions youve been asking recently, I get the feeling that you're due a major system change. Try to get to listen to a few systems in your area to get an idea about what direction to take.
 
Markus,

First, I've really enjoyed everything I've ever read, written by you. I seem to recall a review of tonearms with particular fondness. And used to follow your reviews and what I'd describe as the evolution of your musical/audio taste and systems with great interest. I have always felt a great sense of identification with your writing, for some reason. And have been happy to see you posting here on this board. It's great!

Then I see your post on the Altec 19s. Your photos and description make it sound like you are having a lot of fun! I also have fun with my humble system and sometimes I think I shouldn't mess with what is generally a very synergistic setup. With the cd 3.5 and LP12/ittok I get, say, 70% or more of what is on the cd/lp at comparatively modest cost, the 72/hicap/135 present a solid, powerful, warm and enjoyable sound through the centaurus minors. Though many will say that this setup is wrong, J Dilla Donuts (31 instrumental hip-hop tracks--Oooooh, superb) sound fat and funky and very satisfying. Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker sound great. Kool and the Gang come together very well.

But back to the (perhaps unintended) influence your post had on me--Those model 19's and your platine verdier table look intriguing. The link you posted to the Japanese website with all the vintage gear, your comments about seeing all the Altec gear in Japanese jazz clubs, well heck. Sounds like even more fun, right? So why not check it out?

Clearly, if I go with a pair of highly efficient speakers I'll be able to make the switch to some low powered tube gear for some experimentation. I have an old st-70 that I retired after it started to have problems that I could probably revitalize for not too much money.

So it sounds like the Klipsch models are not thought as highly of as the Altec VOTT. And not as popular in Japan. Hmmmm. If anyone should know, I would think it might be the Japanese, due to their historic obsession with classic american gear.

I'm looking forward to reading more responses on this thread.

Thanks all.

Markus
 
Hi Markus (Naim markus)

I hadn't realized you are in America.

Its a source of considerable jealousy to me that you can get Altecs and JBL speakers for such little money on Audiogon.

Times are changing rapidly, and I'm seeing fewer and fewer these days.

Of course for UK residents, the huge shipping costs on giant speakers, combined with expensive import taxes make shipping them somewhat of an expensive procedure.

Regular viewing of Audiogon will reap you rewards.

Also, joining the lansing heritage site will allow you to buy members speakers privately.

I've just this second looked on Audiogon, and there are a pair of '19's for $1500. Thats not unreasonable. Here is a link http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1154738900

These would also be worth investigation:
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4435-BI-RAD...ryZ47094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Have you always been a horn devotee? Or is this the result of evolving tastes?

Thanks,

Markus (the naimnut)
 
I went searching for my "own personal ultimate" about 2 years ago.

I found that... broadly speaking...

conventional tweeters/mid range units sounded dynamically limited

electrostatics sounded the most detailed, but had no 'oomph'

horns had a'colour' of sorts, but won on the basis of dynamics and believability.


The only way forward for me now, is better horns, unless something new comes out that suits me better.

Cheers
Chris
 
Markus, I think you are perhaps rolling Joel and me into one person? Joel started the thread about the Altec 19s, I did one on the Altec Voice of the Theatre. It's also Joel who can advise about all things Japanese as he lives there whereas I'm in Germany.

What are your current speakers, and what are you not entirely happy with in the sound of your system?
 
Markus, thanks for the clarifications.

I am happy and content. But curious.

And a recent "freeing up" of funds on the part of she who must be obeyed has provided resources for either upgrading my system or doing some experimentation.

Here is my logic:
Upgrading my system will cost at least $2k. That would fund a (probably) musically relevant upgrade to my cd player, preamp or turntable. It would not, however, be a "last and final" upgrade, though an LP 12/ekos/lingo would be pretty darn close to a "lifetime" 'table, probably.

But heck, for around $2k, I can try out a pair of, say, Altecs. Tune up the old dynaco and see how they sound. A change of philosophy away from Naim (and I have heard tubes and they can sound more "performance-transparent") would allow me to sell off 72/hicap/135s and free up somewhere around $3500. For that kind of money there are a lot of options, including vintage gear, Altecs and the kind of stuff that gets lots of attention from the Japanese. As I said, I'm mostly just curious.

Markus (the naimnut)
 
Curious is good. Go listen to some systems, I find it's the only way to see whether you like something or not. Btw I don't think the LP12 and Naim electronics are prerequistes for each other. For example, a Verdier makes a very good front end for a Naim system.
 
But heck, for around $2k, I can try out a pair of, say, Altecs. Tune up the old dynaco and see how they sound.
Click to expand...
Slight correction: you can work your way through all sorts of classic alternatives to the mainstream since you are rather unlikey to lose money on them! At worst you hurt your back and drop a few dollars on shipping costs now and then. Go experiment, discover new things, and tell us about them :)
 
It seems that not only are our systems gradually moving in a similar direction, but Markus S' and my forum persona are gently dissolving into a single amorphous (horny) entity.

naimnut said:
So it sounds like the Klipsch models are not thought as highly of as the Altec VOTT. And not as popular in Japan. Hmmmm. If anyone should know, I would think it might be the Japanese, due to their historic obsession with classic american gear.
Click to expand...
While Klipsch are far from unknown in Japan, they are not nearly as popular as JBL / Altec / Tannoy or even EV (Stentorian, Georgian, Patrician etc) - which is surprising as long ago Klipsch used EV drivers.
But, as my Altec ego Markus has said, Klipsch are not speakers for fans of vocals, or at least not without considerable modification (and even then...).
The low-watt amp thing can be a bit misleading, As 12 or 15" LF driver will eat a few watts, at least it will if you want decent performance.
Buying a speaker system of this kind (and horns really are "systems") is pretty much always just the beginning. They almost invariably seem to require extra work and money.
If you like what horns do, it's worth it. For those who don't really hear it, it isn't.
So, do try and grab a listen to a few systems of this type. In fact I've just spotted that you're over at the Klipsch forum already. That's a good start :)
 
Surprised that no one has mentioned the Westlake horns yet. They seem to be the only popular one on my neck of the woods beside Lowthers.

Any one with experience with them?
 
royce5 said:
Surprised that no one has mentioned the Westlake horns yet.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the price of those things?
Knowing what I do now (after two whole weeks), I'd just buy the TAD drivers second hand, get someone to make me a cab and drive them actively through an electronic xover (with RTA).
In fact that sounds like a plan for the future.
The Big Westlakes, from brief acquaintance, are AWESOME.
 
Naimnut,

as you live stateside, you should not rule out the possibility of trying a pair of JBL 43 series monitors. Different in presentation to the Altec, they are equally reveered in countries with taste, and IMO seem to excel with beat driven works when properly powered.

It's worth remembering that vintage loudspeakers are to a certain extent like vintage cars, and ownership comes with the cost of a certain amount of maintenance requirements. I'm a lazy sod and went for a modern equivalent, but having heard vintage JBL's , Altecs, Tannoys and Vitavox's, I can say they are essential listening. As has been said, if you get their strengths, you will find pretty much all the alternatives lacking in those areas.

Joel,

I suspect the TAD drivers will eventually make an appearence...
 
The Citation has landed (not the XX, but the "compact" X-I version). Apart from looking like a McInphase :) initial results are, ah, interesting.
Will report more later in the week. For now I would that say they've nearly transformed the EVs into JBLs and that I do have a bass issue atm :(
 
merlin said:
JBL's don't have bass issues. All other speakers do.
Click to expand...
The McInphase has "activated" the bass on these speakers to a quite startling degree, but as a result they need repositioning to deal with that. It's a room/position issue.
 
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