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Homelessness

Hi Mull
"The thing that the misery arses on the right don't quite get is that I don't actually have a problem with people being wealthy, so long as their wealth is acquired honestly"..

Strangely me to,

Amongst my very close and fairly close friends ,I can count several Self Made Multi Millionaires the highest being £10 Million, the next £6 Million, the lowest a measly £3 million others are in between these numbers and the same number of "Just Self Made Millionaire" all of it achieved by and continuing to be achieved their own hard work.
Of course the ( inflated) "property value" here in Brighton helps, as several of my friends homes and their work offices put them in this position, money is not normally spoken about as it's not a issue between us, they all are very aware of my Political Stand Point, but it's friendship that is the force that keeps us together and not the green eye of envy.
oldie
 
I suppose that put simply, the work force had a new future with people that recognised the skills and enthusiasm that they had, this coupled along with new designs ,investment in both the people and company resulted in what we see today. A new company ( I'm not a motor Bike enthusiast but those that are tell me) that is producing a world beating product.

Where as companies such as the Rootes Group The other Car manufactures, Alfred Herberts,Coventry Gauge &Tool all continued with their old style of management basically treating their workforce badly and failing to invest money in the company, as many of our British Companies all did at the time.

Now we have the result that many of the great British Companies such as BTH, English Electric & Lodge Plugs( all companies from the town were I used to live), have ceased to exist or have been taken over by foreign companies.

When I worked at Rolls Royce my fellow workers in the "Tin Smiths department could calculate the required, length and cut a strip of Nimonic Steel, butt weld it and then "round it up" to within a "few thou" of it's required dimension before it was machined, then along with other rings then all welded up finally to become a annular flame tube, these skills have been lost for ever ,because of political ideology also there is now nobody and no companies left to "hand down" those skills to.

Companies such as Rolls Royce have closed down or are due to, both plants in Coventry, Bristol and Scotland .They now out source the manufacture of many of the parts used to build their Jet Engines it started whilst I worked there 30 odd years ago. Apart form the manufacturing plant at Derby, it would seem that the only "British" part of Rolls Royce Aero Engine Division left is it's name. The very same sadly also applies to many of the other once Great British Manufacturers. The lessons of the 70's have not been learned, there still is under investment both in people and plant in what is left of our engineering base.

OK old traditional trades have been replaced by new trades in computers, finance, design etc. but these do not employ the numbers of people that the old trades did and the end result is zero hours contracts and minimum wages its a self induced downward spiral that has resulted in a society that is financially separated by a gap greater than it was in Victorian times. The Pound has lost 20% of its value so goods will be more expensive, this can only increase the financial gap for those at the bottom of the ladder.



oldie
 
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Spot on again Oldie. I think that whilst we do have to recognise the rise in technical and manufacturing skill of the likes of China and India, it seems to me that the main problem we face is of short termism in investment. Everybody wants a fast buck and they'd rather pay/take a dividend now, than in invest in a longer term future, proper product development etc. To a very large extent, Govt.s have adopted the same approach in recent decades. No planning beyond the next election...., just short term 'fixes' and constant 'about turns in' in the approach to industry, finance, infrastructure, and the education, training etc, required to properly support them. It's farcical.
 
going back to this sad story
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ts-what-happened-to-his-life?CMP=share_btn_fb

some points :
Last Saturday night, as temperatures plunged to -0.8C, his son Paul Williams, 38, bedded down at his regular spot outside the Wagamama restaurant in the city’s Bullring shopping centre. On Sunday, he failed to wake up. An initial post-mortem has proved inconclusive.

Father and son had not met for 15 years, their relationship having slowly corroded through Paul’s drinking.

On the Tuesday before his death, Paul had been found a room through Rik James, the founder of BHO, who contacted support officers at Provident Housing. He had been given a duvet, a pillow and a box of toiletries. Provident Housing was trying to organise a bank account so that he could receive benefits.

Paul’s parents divorced when he was in his early teens and he initially stayed with his father. On leaving school he worked in local factories. After a couple of years, he “fell in with a bad crowd,” his father said, adding that drinking became a problem and led to his slide on to the street.

He had rented flats, even putting up his brother at one time until David married. But he lost them through rent arrears. He sold everything his family gave him to buy alcohol, said his father, who by then lived with a new partner. Relatives had always helped out, but couldn’t give indefinitely.


Juliette Farrell, parish administrator at St Martin in the Bull Ring church, near Wagamama, banters daily with homeless people in the city centre, while bringing them hot drinks and donated snacks.

Many have addiction issues. Mamba – formerly a legal high – “is a really big problem,” she said.
On the Thursday there were four of them “all huddled underneath Wagamama”. She was worried as “it was bitter”. She dived into a nearby discount store and bought six pairs of gloves, warning them to call an ambulance if anyone was suffering.

But she thought Paul looked a lot better. The men were drinking cider and were upbeat. She heard of his death on Monday. “I went home on autopilot. I was really upset. But I have had to toughen up,” she said.

In addition, there are 2,000 homeless people in emergency and temporary housing in the city. Nobody has to sleep rough in Birmingham, the West Midlands Conservative mayor, Andy Street, said this week. But volunteers and outreach workers believe the figure is far higher. It is difficult to be accurate. People drift off and on the streets all the time.

His funeral will be held at midday on 10 January


the story of alcohol in this is so common , our lad once got 600 quid in housing benefit and spent it all on alcohol , i just don`t understand why councils give it straight to the tenant rather than the landlord direct . it means landlords frequently will not let to tenants on benefits .

encouranging to hear of those who are trying to help in this city and perhaps black mamba one day will be not available
 
On the subject of who housing benefit is paid to, the default position is that it goes direct to the tenant, until the tenant screws up to such an extent that the landlord can apply for alternative arrangements, once they are quite heavily in arrears. By this time many private landlords will have decided to just cut their losses and evict the tenant.

Add to this that some people will have dependencies which need funding, and wrap it all up in the cluster fook that is Universal Credit, and it’s a system that is absolutely failing not just the most vulnerable, but really hurting the JAMS too. I was told last week of a large number of hospital workers whose UC claims will all go to cock this month because the Trust they work for pays a week early in December. Change in income in one month and their claim stops and they need to reapply.
 
London Lad said:
Houses are indirectly taxed. You pay more council tax for a bigger house but don't get more services for your money and you paid income tax on the money you earned to buy it in the first place.
Click to expand...
The difference in council tax is FA between small and big houses. I went from a 2 bedder in a grubby bit of town to a family house twice the price, 3x the floorplan, council tax went from £800 to £1000. That's insignificant. As for income tax, do people pay tax on (modest) inheritances, gifts from the bank of Mum and Dad or money from overseas?

As I say, housing is not effectively taxed in the UK. We all know why.
 
I can’t say that’s my experience. Try moving to a 4 bed in out of the way Norfolk where there are no motorways.

Over £2000 a year I pay from my measly pension.

But then I think, I am contributing to the nice new Jags and rock solid pensions of the council execs.

I feel a lot better for it!
 
London Lad said:
Houses are indirectly taxed. You pay more council tax for a bigger house but don't get more services for your money and you paid income tax on the money you earned to buy it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Incorrect.
The larger the house the more firefighters required in the event of combustion.
More residents, so greater amounts of recycling/refuse produced.
etc
 
Still said:
Incorrect.
The larger the house the more firefighters required in the event of combustion.
More residents, so greater amounts of recycling/refuse produced.
etc
Click to expand...
This would be true but the vast majority of services the council tax pays for relate directly to the number of persons occupying the house and this is often not related to the houses size.
A per head council services tax would be far fairer but we have been there before.
 
London Lad said:
This would be true but the vast majority of services the council tax pays for relate directly to the number of persons occupying the house and this is often not related to the houses size.
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Of course use of service relates to house size, as this affects number of residents.
Some make home a significantly under occupied property, but that isn't something to be encouraged imo.
Not suggesting council tax is a good system, let alone ideal.
fwiw I'd like a local income tax combined with a property/land tax.

A per head council services tax would be far fairer but we have been there before.
Click to expand...

Inherently unfair tax regimes never end well.
 
There are a lot of large properties with only one or two old people living in them who are paying through the nose for the services the receive, which are ridiculously overpriced in the first place.

I really can't believe you think more taxes would be a good thing when we are already paying 20-45% income tax, 9/18% NI and 20% vat plus numerous other 'stealth taxes'
 
London Lad said:
There are a lot of large properties with only one or two old people living in them who are paying through the nose for the services the receive, which are ridiculously overpriced in the first place.
Click to expand...

Indeed. So they really should downsize.

I really can't believe you think more taxes would be a good thing when we are already paying 20-45% income tax, 9/18% NI and 20% vat plus numerous other 'stealth taxes'
Click to expand...

Not more, but a different tax regime.
 
Whatever the size of the property only a very small percentage of the Council Tax is needed to empty bins and cut the grass.

Having visited City and County halls I can see where the bulk if it goes, giving their residents a nice life!
 
London Lad said:
There are a lot of large properties with only one or two old people living in them who are paying through the nose for the services the receive, which are ridiculously overpriced in the first place.

I really can't believe you think more taxes would be a good thing when we are already paying 20-45% income tax, 9/18% NI and 20% vat plus numerous other 'stealth taxes'
Click to expand...

We need much higher taxes on the wealthy and much lower on the poor. Spend more and tax more. Welfare expenditure needs to be at least doubled and the rich must pay for it.
 
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