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Hi-Fi racks - still a thing

NickofWimbledon said:
Hi @adamdea - good comments all.

That is why I picked Ben Goldacre! I thought about pointing at Kahneman on biases - equally relevant but he didn't as far as I know ever mention anything hi-fi, and part of the issue here is that we all have biases and throwaway irrationalities, including me and BC.

I completely agree that getting subjective is a problem, but so is ignoring what looks like evidence too readily.
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I can substantiate the comment that I consistently liked A more than B, and that others reached the same conclusions, at least to my/ our satisfaction. I absolutely cannot substantiate any claim that 100% (or even 70%) of randomly selected listeners would conclude the same. As with so many contributors here, that is why I am more likely to type 'Give it a listen and see what you think" than "you must all buy X".
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All very interesting. The problem is that "what looks like evidence" isn't, whereas there in fact is lots of evidence, which most people seem not to be interested in. Strange, but there you have it.

"Give it a listen and see what you think" might be an excellent signature, and is excellent advice to anyone whose hobby is listening to bits of kit.
 
evand said:
A fair proportion of my main system components have been resting in their packaging for the last few years. I’ve moved to driving active ATC bookshelves and my cans via a Phonitor 2, so really only two components to speak of being the Phonitor and DAC. If council get off their backsides and deal with my planning application I’ll soon have space to unpack the lot again, but it’s got me wondering whether I want a room filled with Hi-Fi furniture again or should just make do with regular furniture that happens to have some Hi-Fi kit placed on it.
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Well here we are. I'm intrigued to know whether you feel that any of this has assisted you in answering your question.
 
Hi @adamdea - as mentioned, I wouldn't disagree with most of your comments, and I suspect most other people won't either.

If enough people say X, and no-one says Not-X, and the first group have not obviously been copying each other's work, that sounds to me like 'evidence', and that readily discarding any data because current theory 'proves' it can't be true is not always wise, but you are of course free to disagree, discard anything that is clearly so subjective.

If I find I prefer replays 2 & 5, with kit changed when I wasn't looking, and those are the two versions with a new box included, is that 'genuine information'? I think 'maybe', but others can disagree.

If we swap places and my girlfriend picks versions 1 & 2 and those were this time the two including the new box (without being able to see because I am deliberately standing in from of the pre-amp), now is it data?

If during an afternoon we have several 'not sure, can't tell, wasn't concentrating' comments and a larger group supporting the new box, and not a single case of someone definitely preferring a different setup, is it data yet?

I'd also say that people knew bumble bees could fly for a long time before the theory gave any explanation at all about how that was possible (though contrary to folklore no aeronauticists actually claimed that they couldn't)..

If I have much lower confidence in the explanations for a hi-fi trial result that I have seen than I have in the result itself, that does not justify pretending that it wasn't the result. I'd be interested for geeky reasons in understanding what is going on, but am not going to discard any of my hi-fi because I don't have a robust and complete explanation.

Much more important in this case is surely your last question - does any of this help answer the question that was asked? I think that you and I are both giving the same suggestion of 'Give it a try and see what you think' aren't we?
 
adamdea said:
I am quite interested in the notion that technological improvements might materially increase my enjoyment of music
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Good post, just wanted to highlight this bit. I think we all are. I guess the difference is that for some people “materially” means “measurably” and for others it means “audibly, consistently”. They’re both equally valid routes to audio nirvana, according to personal preference.
 
NickofWimbledon said:
Hi @adamdea - as mentioned, I wouldn't disagree with most of your comments, and I suspect most other people won't either.
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Much more important in this case is surely your last question - does any of this help answer the question that was asked? I think that you and I are both giving the same suggestion of 'Give it a try and see what you think' aren't we?
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My answer would be -pick your furniture on aesthetic and functional grounds, but it's a free country.
 
After much experimentation I found that open metal/wood fully spiked stands tightened up the sound and increased the dynamics of classical and jazz music. Speaker stands are the same. I could never go back to plonking my kit on a wobbly/heavy table or an un-spiked wall shelf. That is just my experience and many would disagree, I like precision and dynamics and not soundstage. This is my response to the OP.
 
adamdea said:
Well here we are. I'm intrigued to know whether you feel that any of this has assisted you in answering your question.
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It has definitely helped, and the photos helped move me in the direction of no more hi-fi furniture.

I anticipate posting in classifieds in due course.
 
@Sue Pertwee-Tyr - great find! It looks like the evidence from 2007 wasn't so different from that in the 1980s, when I was more confident I understood this stuff. As this highlights, picking materials and design for just about anything is a compromise with no perfect yes/ no fixes. If someone with more modern knowledge would translate for the rest of us, it would be much appreciated.

It does also make me wonder again about those impressive magnet-only floating turntable designs. Is having such a powerful magnetic field so close to moving bits of metal, capacitors in your amp and small currents really a good idea?
 
NickofWimbledon said:
@Sue Pertwee-Tyr - great find! It looks like the evidence from 2007 wasn't so different from that in the 1980s, when I was more confident I understood this stuff. As this highlights, picking materials and design for just about anything is a compromise with no perfect yes/ no fixes. If someone with more modern knowledge would translate for the rest of us, it would be much appreciated.

It does also make me wonder again about those impressive magnet-only floating turntable designs. Is having such a powerful magnetic field so close to moving bits of metal, capacitors in your amp and small currents really a good idea?
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Having magnets close to something as sensitive as a cartridge doesn’t feel like a good idea. I imagine sound quality might be substantially degraded.
 
Speakers on Townshend podiums - they really work and make a big difference.
Electronics on Naim Fraim on Townshend corners and power amps on Townshend Pods. It’s all wobbly man:D

The TT (Rega 8) on top shelf of the Fraim was predictably a disaster, but I’m TT-less now so no harm done.
 
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I am just starting to make a pocket door hifi cabinet, from an old mahogany veneered double wardrobe. Something along these lines, but with glass in the two doors (for the remote control), and full extension shelves to get at the connections. It's too hot to work at the moment, but it will interesting to hear if it affects the sound.

52208080592_c758c5ec76_c.jpg


The TT will be mounted on a steel cantilevered stand, not touching the cabinet.
 
Steven Toy said:
Everything reads what it rests on, everything but to varying degrees. Valves, power supplies and transducers are particularly susceptible to vibration.

Can I prove it?

No.

Do I need to prove it?

No.

It is easy to demonstrate, however but that doesn't constitute absolute proof.

No glass, no spikes, no metal.

Only acrylic, PEEK and a composite of these with graphite.

Musicworks


facebook photo size 2016
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I like your NASA space platform
 
TheFlash said:
Has anyone actually heard glass making a component sound, well, glassy? Or is this just a good old audiophile fable? We're talking at least 6mm toughened glass here, not glass as thin as a wine glass...
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I think one of the reasons the early Rega Planar decks sounded thin was the glass turntable top
 
Colin L said:
Speakers on Townshend podiums - they really work and make a big difference.
Electronics on Naim Fraim on Townshend corners and power amps on Townshend Pods. It’s all wobbly man:D

The TT (Rega 8) on top shelf of the Fraim was predictably a disaster, but I’m. TT-less now so no harm done.
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Regas are definitely support-sensitive (for obvious reasons). Always amazes me to see them on top of big heavy bits of furniture (or huge stack racks). Short of a wall shelf, an original Sound Org table, or something similarly light, rigid and minimal=mass works best IME.
 
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