Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
He was very nice to me
Hi-fi News Oct 2019
- Thread starter CJ14
- Start date
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Were Meridian at the show? I’ve lost track of them in the past 12 years or so since I out of dsp speakers and got back to ‘analogue’. Their ideas were way ahead of the market at the time and I’ve a huge amount of respect for them.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I saw him this year for the first time in about 25 years. Didn’t twig immediately it was him. Looked like a character out of Scorsese’s The Irishman, where the old mob favourites are...ahem...a bit older now.
pjdowns
Living the Hifi dream
Probably thought you might buy something!
rod ayling
pfm Member
I never listen to the demos . i just like to collect the leaflets and brochures.
Apologies that this report has been submitted a week after the show. It covers the areas that interested me. It's not intended to be a comprehensive description of the whole show. I visited with a friend on Sunday, arriving when it opened at 0930.
The venue at Ascot Racecourse was really smart, befitting an upmarket show. Parking was easy and free. The rooms were rather like hotel rooms but only on one side of the building (with a few exceptions). The exhibitors were quite spread out through the building, too much really. It was quite a walk reaching the outlying rooms. I'm fit so not a problem for me but would have been an effort for some. I reckon the rooms in use could have been collapsed to two or three floors instead of being spread over five. Parts of the building were open to the elements and it was quite chilly reaching some of the rooms.
Where criticism could be levelled was in the signposting and general ability to find the exhibitors of interest. The show guide had a map of rooms with those in use marked but it only used numbers. If you wanted to find, say, Absolute Sounds, you had to look them up in the exhibitors section, get the number from there, go to the map and find the room with that number. It was far too awkward. Why couldn't they print a map with the exhibitors names on or at least put the exhibitor names on the map page ?
It got worse. Wanting to find the Mark Levinson room I looked up the room number in the exhibitors section, then wandered round the building until I found the number. When I got there, Mark Levinson was nowhere to be found. It just said Harman over the door. My friend wanted to listen to Arcam and had the same problem. After going into one of the rooms we finally twigged it. Arcam and Mark Levinson are both part of the Harman Group and they could be found inside. How the **** are we supposed to know that ? They could at least have put the brands outside the door “Arcam, part of the Harman group”. There were other problems. Vitus and Plinius were both in the exhibitors guide but I never did find them. In this area the exhibition management really slipped up.
Now to the exhibitors. Chord Electronics were exhibiting and I really wanted to hear the DAVE. Disclosure: I've spent a large sum on a Chord Hugo TT2 Dac which sounds brilliant in my system. The demo was in a fairly large room with a Chord amp and large Kef speakers. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. The sound was truly dire. Like a pair of cheap speakers on a budget hi-fi system turned up loud. Confused and boomy. If it was a £1000 system it would still have been bad. For what it would cost it was totally unacceptable.
It was hard finding rooms I wanted to visit in the large spread-out building as so many rooms were out of use. I stumbled on the Kog room, who I've never heard of before. It was empty and I felt sorry for the staff so I stayed a few minutes. The speakers were by Wimberg. The sound had good dynamics but was overly bright and so hard I couldn't live with it.
I was disappointed to find that Naim didn't have a room despite being billed on the show's web site. Focal were there with their new Chora speakers and a few mid/low end Naim boxes but it wasn't the same as going to one of those top notch Naim demos. I have to say I've never heard a pair of Focal speakers that I liked and the system sounded cold and sterile. Disclosure: I've owned a mid-range Naim-based system for 20+ years which I really enjoy listening to.
Exposure were in two rooms. Although their equipment is well regarded among enthusiasts I've never heard any before. In the first room they were demoing their new active system with CD player, pre-amp, electronic crossover and multiple monoblock power amps. Speakers were Kudos 505 (stand mount). Cost £10k excluding the speakers. This sounded really good to me with decent dynamics and detail. There was an occasional touch of grittiness but this might have been due to the recording. My one criticism would be that it lacked deep bass. Nevertheless it was a fine sound and my friend liked it too.
The Monitor Audio / Roksan room had a Roksan Xerxes (vinyl) front end, Roksan electronics and MAPL300II speakers. It had good dynamics with pleasing percussion sounds but a slightly scratchy top end.
Lunch time arrived and after being unimpressed by the menu in the building we went outside to the High Street and the nearby Bar One. This was quiet and restful and we had a nice meal and beer for a reasonable price.
Back to the exhibition, when we eventually found the Mark Levinson demo it had a streamer driving a WT5802 integrated amp through £7k Revel speakers. The sound was pleasingly clear and dynamic. Unfortunately the music playing was jazz and blues on a fixed playlist and although the room was otherwise empty excuses were made for why they couldn't change it to something I would normally listen to so I left.
Trying the adjacent room with an Arcam system driving JBL speakers I thought the sound was thin and scratchy.
After so many disappointing systems but a good experience with Exposure we visited the second Exposure room so we could hear the Kudos floor standers. Here they had similar Exposure equipment to the first room but driving a pair of Kudos 707. The room was joint with Audioquest cables and the demo began by comparing different types of speaker cable using passive speaker connections. The difference between lamp flex and Monster cable from the 1970s was marked. They worked up to Audioquest “Wild” cable costing £3k for 2x 3m lengths. It was a small improvement on the Monster cable but not £3k worth. They then swapped the speakers over to active driven by 4x monoblocks but I didn't spot an improvement. After this track (female vocal) the music was changed from to electronic pop. It sounded very vivid and not at all harsh. Then a Mark Knoppfler track which was clear although slightly thin but this could have been due to the recording.
We went up to the Absolute Sounds suite which was huge and full of large items of electronics displayed on plinths as if they were works of art – which in some cases they were. Although it was an eye-opener seeing these very large wealth statements I go to hi-fi shows primarily to listen to systems not They had demo rooms which needed tickets to get in. Unfortunately it wasn't clear that this was the case when we visited the suite in the morning so we didn't get any tickets.
After the AS disappointment we called in on the more advanced of the two Cambridge audio rooms where their Edge series streamer and amp were paired with Q Acoustics concept 500 speakers. The system had good dynamics while the detail was OK without standing out. The speakers were quite large and I felt that although there was a reasonable amount of bass they lacked deep bass.
Overall, looking back over the show I found it disappointing due to the small range of high-end vendors. The list of vendors in the advance publicity was misleading: I never found some of them and others were only support acts to other vendors (e.g. Naim, dCS). The quality of the demos that I did hear was, overall, disappointing and nothing made my credit card twitch. The best sound was in the two Exposure rooms, each with Kudos speakers. Their sound was enjoyable and my friend agreed. I didn't think either was better than my home system and I'd point towards their front end as the CD was mid-market rather than high end. Too many rooms were playing jazz and blues. I don't listen to this sort of music at home and while there's a place for it, I'd like to have heard some contemporary chart or rock music. The venue has promise but needs a lot more exhibitors and better signage. Would I go again ? After all, it's only a 15 minute journey from home. Only if it features more vendors and demos.
The venue at Ascot Racecourse was really smart, befitting an upmarket show. Parking was easy and free. The rooms were rather like hotel rooms but only on one side of the building (with a few exceptions). The exhibitors were quite spread out through the building, too much really. It was quite a walk reaching the outlying rooms. I'm fit so not a problem for me but would have been an effort for some. I reckon the rooms in use could have been collapsed to two or three floors instead of being spread over five. Parts of the building were open to the elements and it was quite chilly reaching some of the rooms.
Where criticism could be levelled was in the signposting and general ability to find the exhibitors of interest. The show guide had a map of rooms with those in use marked but it only used numbers. If you wanted to find, say, Absolute Sounds, you had to look them up in the exhibitors section, get the number from there, go to the map and find the room with that number. It was far too awkward. Why couldn't they print a map with the exhibitors names on or at least put the exhibitor names on the map page ?
It got worse. Wanting to find the Mark Levinson room I looked up the room number in the exhibitors section, then wandered round the building until I found the number. When I got there, Mark Levinson was nowhere to be found. It just said Harman over the door. My friend wanted to listen to Arcam and had the same problem. After going into one of the rooms we finally twigged it. Arcam and Mark Levinson are both part of the Harman Group and they could be found inside. How the **** are we supposed to know that ? They could at least have put the brands outside the door “Arcam, part of the Harman group”. There were other problems. Vitus and Plinius were both in the exhibitors guide but I never did find them. In this area the exhibition management really slipped up.
Now to the exhibitors. Chord Electronics were exhibiting and I really wanted to hear the DAVE. Disclosure: I've spent a large sum on a Chord Hugo TT2 Dac which sounds brilliant in my system. The demo was in a fairly large room with a Chord amp and large Kef speakers. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. The sound was truly dire. Like a pair of cheap speakers on a budget hi-fi system turned up loud. Confused and boomy. If it was a £1000 system it would still have been bad. For what it would cost it was totally unacceptable.
It was hard finding rooms I wanted to visit in the large spread-out building as so many rooms were out of use. I stumbled on the Kog room, who I've never heard of before. It was empty and I felt sorry for the staff so I stayed a few minutes. The speakers were by Wimberg. The sound had good dynamics but was overly bright and so hard I couldn't live with it.
I was disappointed to find that Naim didn't have a room despite being billed on the show's web site. Focal were there with their new Chora speakers and a few mid/low end Naim boxes but it wasn't the same as going to one of those top notch Naim demos. I have to say I've never heard a pair of Focal speakers that I liked and the system sounded cold and sterile. Disclosure: I've owned a mid-range Naim-based system for 20+ years which I really enjoy listening to.
Exposure were in two rooms. Although their equipment is well regarded among enthusiasts I've never heard any before. In the first room they were demoing their new active system with CD player, pre-amp, electronic crossover and multiple monoblock power amps. Speakers were Kudos 505 (stand mount). Cost £10k excluding the speakers. This sounded really good to me with decent dynamics and detail. There was an occasional touch of grittiness but this might have been due to the recording. My one criticism would be that it lacked deep bass. Nevertheless it was a fine sound and my friend liked it too.
The Monitor Audio / Roksan room had a Roksan Xerxes (vinyl) front end, Roksan electronics and MAPL300II speakers. It had good dynamics with pleasing percussion sounds but a slightly scratchy top end.
Lunch time arrived and after being unimpressed by the menu in the building we went outside to the High Street and the nearby Bar One. This was quiet and restful and we had a nice meal and beer for a reasonable price.
Back to the exhibition, when we eventually found the Mark Levinson demo it had a streamer driving a WT5802 integrated amp through £7k Revel speakers. The sound was pleasingly clear and dynamic. Unfortunately the music playing was jazz and blues on a fixed playlist and although the room was otherwise empty excuses were made for why they couldn't change it to something I would normally listen to so I left.
Trying the adjacent room with an Arcam system driving JBL speakers I thought the sound was thin and scratchy.
After so many disappointing systems but a good experience with Exposure we visited the second Exposure room so we could hear the Kudos floor standers. Here they had similar Exposure equipment to the first room but driving a pair of Kudos 707. The room was joint with Audioquest cables and the demo began by comparing different types of speaker cable using passive speaker connections. The difference between lamp flex and Monster cable from the 1970s was marked. They worked up to Audioquest “Wild” cable costing £3k for 2x 3m lengths. It was a small improvement on the Monster cable but not £3k worth. They then swapped the speakers over to active driven by 4x monoblocks but I didn't spot an improvement. After this track (female vocal) the music was changed from to electronic pop. It sounded very vivid and not at all harsh. Then a Mark Knoppfler track which was clear although slightly thin but this could have been due to the recording.
We went up to the Absolute Sounds suite which was huge and full of large items of electronics displayed on plinths as if they were works of art – which in some cases they were. Although it was an eye-opener seeing these very large wealth statements I go to hi-fi shows primarily to listen to systems not They had demo rooms which needed tickets to get in. Unfortunately it wasn't clear that this was the case when we visited the suite in the morning so we didn't get any tickets.
After the AS disappointment we called in on the more advanced of the two Cambridge audio rooms where their Edge series streamer and amp were paired with Q Acoustics concept 500 speakers. The system had good dynamics while the detail was OK without standing out. The speakers were quite large and I felt that although there was a reasonable amount of bass they lacked deep bass.
Overall, looking back over the show I found it disappointing due to the small range of high-end vendors. The list of vendors in the advance publicity was misleading: I never found some of them and others were only support acts to other vendors (e.g. Naim, dCS). The quality of the demos that I did hear was, overall, disappointing and nothing made my credit card twitch. The best sound was in the two Exposure rooms, each with Kudos speakers. Their sound was enjoyable and my friend agreed. I didn't think either was better than my home system and I'd point towards their front end as the CD was mid-market rather than high end. Too many rooms were playing jazz and blues. I don't listen to this sort of music at home and while there's a place for it, I'd like to have heard some contemporary chart or rock music. The venue has promise but needs a lot more exhibitors and better signage. Would I go again ? After all, it's only a 15 minute journey from home. Only if it features more vendors and demos.
Clearly you didn't go to the old Windsor venue? There was a lot more exhibitors at Ascot this year than at Windsor in previous years. It wasn't perfect and there are improvements to be made, which I am sure will be done, but overall a huge improvement over the old Windsor venue. Hi-Fi show wise: that is about as good as you can expect these days for the UK. Back in the 1980s/90s the Penta/Ramada show used to attract about 13,000 visitors over the 4 days. I doubt there was more than a thousand who attended the Ascot show. I suggest if you want a bigger/better show then you will have to travel to Munich...
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graystoke4
pfm Member
after reading that i'm glad i didn't drive 4 / 5 hours or 9 hours return on the train to get there, and get stuffed for £22
It really wasn't that bad. Key points: some extra signage where the exhibits finished would have been nice. Extra catering as in sandwiches, cakes, etc would have been nice, but the location, venue, easy of parking and a good selection of brands made it a good show. I would certainly consider exhibiting there next year...
graystoke4
pfm Member
the thing is if i go that far at a cost i want to see a lot of high end gear throbbing growling and blasting the music i play at home ,
Tony L
Administrator
I have to admit I’m perfectly happy saving the money and time and just watching the YouTube videos these days. Michael Fremer’s video upthread has a bit much of him giving a vinyl presentation (should have been a separate video), but that aside gives a good overview of what was there IMO.
PS Yes, I do listen to a lot of classical and jazz, and I wouldn’t even consider assessing a system using modern pop/rock music!
PS Yes, I do listen to a lot of classical and jazz, and I wouldn’t even consider assessing a system using modern pop/rock music!
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
I wouldn’t consider using modern pop/rock either (though it depends on how one defines these terms, particularly ‘rock’).
I’m just watching the Fremer report (I would liked to have heard the records in his presentation) now and I would have liked to attend the show, but it was just too far for a one day jolly.
I’m just watching the Fremer report (I would liked to have heard the records in his presentation) now and I would have liked to attend the show, but it was just too far for a one day jolly.
Or Warszawa perhaps?
I believe they have the second large show, after Munich that is.
Make sure to have at least a couple of days if visiting MOC, the alternative Hifi deluxe exhibition nearby is usually worth an audition too.
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I made a similar comment earlier on.
That Chord + KEF Blade 2 combo was truly awful. Nothing else at the show came anywhere near as bad.
...
I had an urge on another thread to say something negative about some speakers, which I had heard at the "Indulgence" show in Hammersmith.
But this made me think, all shows have setup problems, so we should praise those who get it right. I do miss the Hammersmith Show though.
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
I have to disagree. Cranage proves that a hifi show can be good AND free.