Harvey Weinstein

[PaulMB]

I'm sorry. So you think that 'She was asking for it' is an acceptable excuse for abusing a position of power.

No question of "she was asking for it." From what she has said to the Italian media she was not "raped" at all, but agreed to his request for a blow-job.

Weinstein was one of many producers at the time, and Asia Argento already had a solid reputation as an actress. So he was in a position of power only regarding his own company.

Afterwards she worked with Weinstein, for 5 years, on a number of films.

I'm not saying any of this is "Right", but that it is hypocritical to pretend it does not happen all the time and always has done. From what friends in the Italian film industry tell me, there were/are actresses who use sex on anyone they feel might remotely further their careers, while others who don't do it al all, and often have excellent careers.

 

[Steve Catterall]

From what friends in the Italian film industry tell me

Male friends no doubt.

Anyone who tries to suggest that abusing a position of power like this is in any way the Woman's fault, is part of the problem.

Just by bringing it up, you are effectively trying to excuse the behavior.

That is one of the reasons why he's been able to get away with it for so long,

 

[Cav]

No question of "she was asking for it." From what she has said to the Italian media she was not "raped" at all, but agreed to his request for a blow-job.

Weinstein was one of many producers at the time, and Asia Argento already had a solid reputation as an actress. So he was in a position of power only regarding his own company.

Afterwards she worked with Weinstein, for 5 years, on a number of films.

I'm not saying any of this is "Right", but that it is hypocritical to pretend it does not happen all the time and always has done. From what friends in the Italian film industry tell me, there were/are actresses who use sex on anyone they feel might remotely further their careers, while others who don't do it al all, and often have excellent careers.

I am not clear whether you think it is right, morally, for people in power to use their status to coerce others to grant sexual favours to gain advancement, which is what this thread is about?

 

[PaulMB]

Male friends no doubt.

Anyone who tries to suggest that abusing a position of power like this is in any way the Woman's fault, is part of the problem.

Just by bringing it up, you are effectively trying to excuse the behavior.

That is one of the reasons why he's been able to get away with it for so long,

No, more female than male in fact.

 

[PaulMB]

I am not clear whether you think it is right, morally, for people in power to use their status to coerce others to grant sexual favours to gain advancement, which is what this thread is about?

No, of course not. But it does seem odd that after 25 years of this guy behaving like this, everyone is suddenly exploding in shock and horror. Might it be that he is not as important a producer as he was before?

 

[Lee T]

I doubt he is alone.

 

[Steve Catterall]

but it does seem odd that after 25 years of this guy behaving like this, everyone is suddenly exploding in shock and horror

Not really. Women have to put up with this kind of shit all the time. It's hard to speak out when there are men out there who try to 'balance' the debate by calling you a slut.

I suppose you thought much the same about Saville?

 

[Cav]

I do not know whether Weinstein is guilty of anything. My point was about your (PaulMB) defence of people in power abusing that power in a sexual context and now, seemingly suggesting it is only an issue when made public.

 

[cooky1257]

I must confess to an incredulous "No shit Sherlock?" response to these revelations.
The man is a reptile and should face the full weight of the law if convicted of rape.

Before we all get carried away with attitudes that the female of the species is all delicate, innocent and frail, I've seen enough 'ambitious' junior female creatives/reps whatever aim straight for the Creative director's bed (with varying degrees of success) in the advertising industry with the sole aim of getting ahead.

 

[Gilbers]

No, of course not. But it does seem odd that after 25 years of this guy behaving like this, everyone is suddenly exploding in shock and horror. Might it be that he is not as important a producer as he was before?

I'm still not sure what your point is - are you suggesting that victims of abuse should be condemned as complicit, simply because they only report it once they feel safe to do so? Do you have the same attitude about the Savile case?

 

[Steve Catterall]

Before we all get carried away with attitudes that the female of the species is all delicate, innocent and frail, I've seen enough 'ambitious' junior females aim straight for the Creative director's bed (with varying degrees of success) in the advertising industry to know it can cut both ways.

Except that there is no power dynamic there. The Creative director is not under any pressure to agree. So its not the same thing at all.

 

[cooky1257]

Except that there is no power dynamic there. The Creative director is not under any pressure to agree. So its not the same thing at all.

Well clearly plenty of women told him(Weinstein) where to get off.
My point is that once the CD does agree he's f ucked in more ways than one-if he does or doesn't deliver, he's abused his position.

 

[jtrade]

No, of course not. But it does seem odd that after 25 years of this guy behaving like this, everyone is suddenly exploding in shock and horror. Might it be that he is not as important a producer as he was before?

Huge hypocrisy within the industry- apparently many knew it was going on and said nothing, just brushed it off as "casting couch".

It does seem odd that mega stars like Paltrow & Jolie, who've made a point of standing up for themselves within a male dominated industry, only now share their early, very unpleasant experiences with Weinstein : why not speak out before, as very powerful actresses ?

I also feel there is huge hypocrisy within the male world as a whole, we have been responsible for centuries of misogyny...

 

[merlin]

Attitudes like that are part of the problem.

I rarely agree with Paul but on this occasion he's simply telling the truth.

Another way of looking at it is to say that the woman prostituted herself - she was prepared to offer sexual favours in exchange for money. Call her a whore and you really would get people's backs up.

The option is always there to walk out and report the sleezeball to the authorities and seek a prosecution for sexual harassment. Alternatively you might compromise your morals in order to make a lot of money.

 

[Lee T]

Except that there is no power dynamic there. The Creative director is not under any pressure to agree. So its not the same thing at all.

Actually you would be wrong there,
Many women have been found to sexually abuse male staff in places of work, it's not a one way street, as in the cases of spouse abuse by women on their male partners.

It may seem cute for a woman to pinch the bum of a male colleague in "jest" but if the guy is married or has a partner, he is allowed to feel just as uncomfortable as any woman will in the same situation.

 

[Cav]

I rarely agree with Paul but on this occasion he's simply telling the truth.

Another way of looking at it is to say that the woman prostituted herself - she was prepared to offer sexual favours in exchange for money. Call her a whore and you really would get people's backs up.

The option is always there to walk out and report the sleezeball to the authorities and seek a prosecution for sexual harassment. Alternatively you might compromise your morals in order to make a lot of money.

Why am I surprised, I am not BTW, that the Mensa Misogynist speaks up for the abuse of women and suggests they asked for it, nay deserved it, or did not say no often or loud enough?

 

[Lee T]

Not really. Women have to put up with this kind of shit all the time. It's hard to speak out when there are men out there who try to 'balance' the debate by calling you a slut

In the entertainment industry & especially the film industry, where woman find it far more difficult than men to make it, the reason for the silence & not speaking up is, in their mind, self serving, Jane Fonda admitted as much on tv recently regarding this scandal, she said she wished she had been more brave & spoken up, imagine a 21 year old starting out, her speaking up, could, to her, mean the end of her career before it started, guys like this pray on it, they are predators., nothing less.

I would imagine there will far more being outed in the coming months.

 

[droodzilla]

Now Tory-boy pond slime Quentin Letts is at it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/13/quentin-letts-radio-4?CMP=fb_gu

 

[merlin]

People in authority will always abuse power. Political parties use the term "whip" for good reason when talking about enforcers in the Commons - they use power and threat to get people to ignore their better moral judgement in the interests of continuing their career path.

I hope the guy gets everything he deserves if he is indeed arrested and found guilty of rape or sexual assault.

Until that time we are talking about someone abusing his position in power to try to get sexual favours. It was part of everyday culture in the Seventies - and covered up as a matter of course. Anyone pretending otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[Paul R]

It does seem odd that mega stars like Paltrow & Jolie, who've made a point of standing up for themselves within a male dominated industry, only now share their early, very unpleasant experiences with Weinstein : why not speak out before, as very powerful actresses ?

Because they wanted to carry on working.

Paul