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Harbeth M40.2, Naim or Accuphase

S

seadog7

pfm Member
I am looking at a change in direction away from the ATC system I have now.

Because of COVID etc. I am restricted in demo. opportunities. I have a broad range of music tastes , and I was looking at an integrated amp. and DAC.

Currently I have the Naim SN3/HiCap2DR/NDX2 as a possible match for Harbeth M40.2. Or alternately the Accuphase E480 with optimal DAC Board fitted.

So, a more upfront and propulsive sound with the Naim combo. (But only 80W) vs slightly smoother (but much more power 180W) Accuphase.

Any thoughts ?
 
I wouldn't be overly concerned by power - both should suffice in most situations. The Naim is conservatively rated in any case. Also, FWIW, I've read of HiCap adding little to SN3.

Will be interested to follow your journey...
 
I’d personally go with the naim. I went from Accuphase to the naim system you specified using Graham and Spendor speakers. The accuphase was a bit boring in comparison.
 
Check this out "Harbeth M40.2 - LFD NCSE Mk3 and Hegel H590 Compared" https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/harbeth-40-2a-lfd-ncse-mk3-and-hegel-h590-compared

No experience with M40.2 but based on my experience trying different amps with the M40.1 at my mate's place and SHL5 Plus, the Harbeth will benefit from added power/current to come alive, especially if you listen to a lot of rock or dynamic music with a lot of transients or burst of dynamics where you need to hear all the speed and double-bass coming out in full force.

If you predominantly listen to mellow stuff and vocals, then most flea-powered amps would do fine but I notice you have a broad music taste, so proper amp selection is required. FWIW I don't think Supernait 2 will be good enough for the M40.2. For the SHL5 Plus, the minimum requirement in my book is 282/250DR. Another SHL5+ user who upgraded the 272/250DR to 272/300DR notified that the 300DR is the minimum requirement for the Harbeth. Well, since I don't have the funds, 250DR would do fine for my "minimum requirement".
 
Forgot to mention since JHenry had mentioned it. As usual it will depend a lot on musical preference and taste. I understand there are people who match Harbeth with Luxman and Accuphase. Personally I have tried Luxman but it's a Class A model(L-590AXII) so perhaps it's a bit smoother than the Class AB equivalent (L-509X). For slam and dynamics, I would pick the Naim or other dynamic sounding amps over Luxman or Accuphase based on what I read on the forum. My own personal experience is with the Class A Luxman and it does sound a little smooth or tame with the Harbeth. If you want to hear the leading edge attack and dynamics in drums and acoustic guitars, the slam and punch in the bass etc. the Naim delivers this better than the Luxman.
 
Heard M40 range several times at shows.

Bloated uncontrolled basnotes every time.
This should not be an issue for such high priced speaker.

They certainly need space and room around them.
Along with a tight powerfull amp and Vgood source.
 
I suspect the philosophies behind Harbeth and Accuphase are a long way apart. Such that, if you ‘get’ one, you probably don’t appreciate the other. Personally, I’d go with Accuphase all day long, and I find Harbeth pleasant to listen to, but uninspiring. I can’t imagine listening through Harbeths would encourage me to widen my musical horizons, for example. YMMV.

So if you’re going with Harbeth, I’d probably say that what I find so special about Accuphase is probably not a priority for you. So look elsewhere; Naim, sure, why not.
 
What about exposure mono blocks as another option? Haven't heard myself but will be listening to the 3010S2D and a SN3 integrated next week. Seem to be a good alternative to Naim but slightly smoother from what I have read, so maybe a middle ground.
 
I could also get my hands on Esoteric. The F05 Integrated at 120W (but punchy and massive headroom apparently) or their F03A - Class A (but only 30W).
 
You really need to be a bit more specific regarding budget, requirements of a source, etc. As you're looking at an NDX2 I presume you're after a DAC/Streamer as a source?

I've owned the Naim SN3/HiCap2DR/NDX2. The SN3 is an excellent amplifier in its own right. I preferred it without the HCDR. The Harbeth M40.2 is a fine speaker, but it does need good amplification and source plus proper room set up. The SN3 would, of course, work. It wouldn't be my choice for a chain that ends with a M40.2

The NDX2 is excellent and taken a notch higher with the addition of a TXPS. It's also very flexible and has great connectivity. The app is also probably the best out there; the app is key to enjoying a streamer, IMO. The NDX2 can obviously be used in a non Naim system. If you've the budget and desire to have a truly superb DAC/streamer then take a look at a dCS Bartok. Good app, but not quite as good as the Naim.

Amp wise, if looking at a single box integrated, then I'd be long at an Audionet, Norma or Accustic Arts. Naim wise, then it'd be pre-power. Possibly a N272 (if you're only using it as a pre/network player and streaming Tidal), or NDX2 + NAC 282/HCDR/300DR. I did have a trial of that system against my Norma. I preferred the Norma, for what it's worth.
 
seadog7 said:
I could also get my hands on Esoteric. The F05 Integrated at 120W (but punchy and massive headroom apparently) or their F03A - Class A (but only 30W).
Click to expand...

seen these these F5 amps hanging about at dealers , they are pretty hard to resell so be cautious .
 
I tried SN3 and HiCap on my P3ESR 40ths, and found it an acceptable combination, but nothing more than that. The SN3 is a good amp but wasn't particularly engaging with the P3ESRs, and didn't have all the drive/energy you'd expect from Naim amplification. Avondale Voyagers (and before that, but to a lesser extent, Vitus RI100) were much better. Much more life and presence - more distinct bass, percussion, scale to voices etc. A much more engaging experience. Not exactly a fair comparison to the SN3 at RRPs (particularly as the Voyagers need a good active pre, I've found) but the common denominator is more power. Harbeths really need a lot of juice to get good control of them. If you buy used there's some great value out there at the moment. The plus side with the Naim is you can easily buy can sell without losing any money. So you could buy and try.

I also think the bare NDX2 at £5k+ new is very poor value. If you want to keep the box count down, I'd consider a used Vitus RI-101 with DAC, which should come in at similar money to the Accuphase and work well with the Harbs. Our if you really want to go with Naim, at least a 250 (although if it was me buying the big Harbs I'd really be wanting a 300..).
 
If the OP hasn't seen this, then this demonstration of the M40.1, with Alan Shaw in attendance, might be interesting:

 
What many people don't consider, the M40.1 is a completely different animal in the bass region compared to the M40.2.

This video shows only, that the M40.1 requires much power when forced to play strange music with synthetic deep bass frequencies at very high volume and a huge listening distance. Actually it only shows how much power a M40.1 can handle.
 
seadog7 said:
I am looking at a change in direction away from the ATC system I have now.

Because of COVID etc. I am restricted in demo. opportunities. I have a broad range of music tastes , and I was looking at an integrated amp. and DAC.

Currently I have the Naim SN3/HiCap2DR/NDX2 as a possible match for Harbeth M40.2. Or alternately the Accuphase E480 with optimal DAC Board fitted.

So, a more upfront and propulsive sound with the Naim combo. (But only 80W) vs slightly smoother (but much more power 180W) Accuphase.

Any thoughts ?
Click to expand...

yes....how do you know what the two amps sound like with no demo, in your room with those speakers? And if you do know somehow, don't you know if you prefer the sound you describe? I'm confused.
 
Old Shatterhand said:
What many people don't consider, the M40.1 is a completely different animal in the bass region compared to the M40.2.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "completely different animal in the bass region"?
A quick visit to the HUG and Shaw only mentions a "full re-costing" or price adjustment/increase.
What was changed in the speaker?
 
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