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Gustard Network Switch... Thoughts?

G

Greyandy

pfm Member
At the risk of pulling the pin out of one of the regular hand-grenades, I see that Gustard have just released an 'audiophile' network switch that looks to offer a bit more than the usual re-built and re-branded offerings on the market. It also claims to have an internal 10mhz clock with the option of adding an external clock - quite how this works in a network switch is a bit of a mystery to me but I'm sure someone on here will be able to explain or de-bunk!

Some details here:- https://www.stereocheck.com/news/hi...d-with-5-rj45-ethernet-ports/#google_vignette
 
Greyandy said:
At the risk of pulling the pin out of one of the regular hand-grenades, I see that Gustard have just released an 'audiophile' network switch that looks to offer a bit more than the usual re-built and re-branded offerings on the market. It also claims to have an internal 10mhz clock with the option of adding an external clock - quite how this works in a network switch is a bit of a mystery to me but I'm sure someone on here will be able to explain or de-bunk!

Some details here:- https://www.stereocheck.com/news/hi...d-with-5-rj45-ethernet-ports/#google_vignette
Click to expand...

I spot the buzzword: CLOCK!

Better clocks cannot improve the data transfer effectiveness in a digital network or USB connection.
Better clocks might improve noise performance but Ethernet is galvanically isolated if you use unshielded UTP cables, and it is unlikely that Gustard or any other audiophile network switch manufacturer will be able to provide evidence that using one makes a measurable difference.
 
I obviously have an agenda here but clocks in ethernet? Seriously? What @tuga says, basically. A low noise clock might be worth something but clock accuracy? Nah. Inconvenient facts and all that.
 
There is probably some benefit from its internal regulated LPS. I am dubious of the benefit of an external clock. How much?
 
tuga said:
I spot the buzzword: CLOCK!

Better clocks cannot improve the data transfer effectiveness in a digital network or USB connection.
Better clocks might improve noise performance but Ethernet is galvanically isolated if you use unshielded UTP cables, and it is unlikely that Gustard or any other audiophile network switch manufacturer will be able to provide evidence that using one makes a measurable difference.
Click to expand...
I do not disagree at all with what you say about clocks and Ethernet but as far as I am aware galvanic isolation on Ethernet usually consists of transformers and so it blocks dc currents and not noise doesn’t it? After all, the transformers need to pass the signal.

Mind you the best switch I have heard is the Innuos PhoenixNET and they include a clock in that but I don’t hold it against them, just that it likely isn’t responsible for the good sound.
 
I must ask my ISP to change all the network swtiches in their entire network, and also change the one in my network router etc at home to get rid of that pesky noise and interference on my Netflix HDR 4k UHD video, which is totally ruining my ablity to enjoy the picture quality on my OLED TV.
 
Fourlegs said:
Mind you the best switch I have heard is the Innuos PhoenixNET and they include a clock in that but I don’t hold it against them, just that it likely isn’t responsible for the good sound.
Click to expand...
Do bear in mind the clocks in Innuos Phoenix net and USB are nothing to do with clocking the data.
 
Fourlegs said:
I do not disagree at all with what you say about clocks and Ethernet but as far as I am aware galvanic isolation on Ethernet usually consists of transformers and so it blocks dc currents and not noise doesn’t it? After all, the transformers need to pass the signal.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that the transformers don't filter EMI/RFI?
 
davidsrsb said:
Ethernet interface modules in every switch out there consist of a transformer and RF filtering components. They have to, to pass CE regulations. Also the Ethernet transceiver ICs have crystal clocks, so I call complete BS.
Click to expand...
Exactly, the mangnetics will be built into the RJ45 port itself and include a common mode choke, all this guff about noise is nonsens.
 
I think it all depends on whether you've invested a grand in a proper audiophile grade ethernet cable.

If you have you'll probably think this switch is the dogs danglies.

If you haven't you've saved yourself enough cash for a week somewhere nice in the Cotswolds.
 
tuga said:
Are you sure that the transformers don't filter EMI/RFI?
Click to expand...
Well looking at stated insertion losses for various ethernet transformers they depend on the magnetics used but some state 3dB loss up to 1GHz whilst others state 1dB loss up to a lower frequency so that leaves plenty of scope for noise transfer. However I do know that some incorporate filtering but filtering is not the same as blocking. So obviously never say never but I don’t think one can rely on ethernet galvanic isolation for noise blocking especially as the level of galvanic isolation is stated as an amount of inductance when a certain DC bias is applied (ie it is primarily intended to block DC offset).

Then there is the awkward matter of changes to the network producing changes in sound quality in the system so that again does seem to indicate that the ethernet galvanic isolation and filtering is not 100% effective for noise blocking. An easy demonstration of this is to connect an Amazon cheap and nasty media converter in the network connected to ones streamer and easily hear the difference in sound quality. If the ethernet galvanic isolation could be relied upon then surely there would be no change in sound quality.

But anyway, back to the subject of the thread, I would certainly be interested to hearing one of the Gustard switches compared to the Innuos PhoenixNET that I have in my system.
 
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