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Give a new life for your Linn Keilidhs!

L

Linnik

Flat Earth - Source First
I did accomplish some renewing for my Linn Keilidhs yesterday.

Surprise awaited me how much better they sound now.

Gone is the lazyness and softy nature which always took Keilidhs apart
from KANs. Now my Keilidhs remind me of KANs by the speed and
slam. Also tunefulness had a remarkable lift. They also can take more
beating by power without going on their knees. What else could you ask for?

I have never compared them to Kabers but my system always lacked
the speed and top rhythm of a KAN system I listen frequently.
Not anymore. Now my Keilidhs are comparable with KANs but give more
low freq. Exactly as one could hope. Sound is accurate and
decays better. The leading edge has entered into the building.

You can lift up your Keilidhs considerably
by making some easy done refinements.

THE PROBLEM

The problem with Keilidhs is the lack of strenght and
stability which results in unwanted vibrations of the enclosure.

According to my experience (once again..) it is a question of only
few thousands or hundreds of millimetres and we will have clearly
audible degradation of music. I mean compression distorsion.
The tune goes flatter (unevenly in the freq. range) and the rhythmic
contect looses it's grip - the one which is called leading edge.
This means the music is loosing it's magic touch.
Also the emotional contents are not transmitted to the listener anymore.

This is how Keilidhs were made obviously. To be a mid class spkr. Not a top class one.

THE SOLUTION

I bought some 2,5 m of wooden pin. I think it was about 16 mm dia.

Sorry - I did not use a measurement tape so I cannot give you exact lengths of the needed pins. What I did exactly was:

I opened the upper mid/bass unit and plowed the end of the long wood pin into the enclosure. Took the measure from back wall to the front wall and marked it to the pin. Then saw a piece out - few mm's longer.

Then same on width.

After fitting the pieces inside I used them as models and saw three more pieces of both, longer and shorter pieces. So I ended up with 4 longer and 4 shorter pins.

Then started the fitting. I used expensive but very strong and soft remaining rubber glue called Casco Liquisole - great strength, made for shoe repairs really.

I glued both ends of one SHORT pin and placed it behind the tweeter unit between the sides of the Keilidh enclosure.

Then I glued a LONG pin and placed it between the back wall and the front wall of the enclosure just 1 cm under the mid/bass unit.

----

By making the pins A BIT longer, you can make them tight. But don't apply too much force here. Otherwise they may tear your Keilidhs into pieces by time. Just a bit tight and the glue will keep them there. Actually, otherwise, with the long pins, you will bent the front baffle so that the hole of mid/bass will not be tight anymore. Be careful. Just a bit tightening...

IF you will have one or two mm's too short pin, take a small square of say 3-4 mm thick sorbothane sheet (30x30 mm) and place that to one end of the pin, between the pin and the enclosure wall. It will make it tigh. Use a bit glue on both sides of sorbothane.

Also you could place a suitable plates of veneer into both end of the pins against the enclosure wall. I guess this would make this modification even more efficient.

----

Same to the lower mid/bass element. HERE you have to place the longer pin a bit off center as there is the crossover unit on the back wall in the middle. No problem - it will work okay a bit off centre IMHO.

THE RESULTS

When I had finished the other eclosure, I tried by knocking the enclosure by my knucles. CLEAR DIFFERENCE! The original box had that lousy sound which meant vibration/resonance. While the pinned enclosure was much more rigid and not vibrating with long sound.

By music the difference was also very clear. More tune. More rhythm. Leading edge. Clarity. Tune performance is now more evenly spread over the freq. range. Music sounds genuinely faster after the modification.

Straight talking they are now clearly one class better speakers they were. And this should apply as well passively as actively run Keilidhs.

NEW TWEETER?

IF you have changed the tweeter for the new "Ninka-tweeter" as I have done, this makes even more space inside. You know it is somewhat critical how much material is put into the calculated speaker enclosure. The old tweeter had a substantially sized can inside of the speaker enclosure but the Ninka tweeter is a small one. So you have some extra room made for the pins! No problem.

EXTRA TIP

What else did I do? I did turn the mid/bass elements upside down. They have been hanging there more than ten years now so it was about time to turn them before their voice coils start to ground!

TO MAKE IT EVEN BETTER THAN MINE

Make one set more of the short pins and place ones also between the back wall and the mid bulkhead. I placed them only to the speaker side of the bulkhead and that is propably more important. But on both sides even better, I guess.

CONCLUSION

This is VERY easy and fast built modification for this splendid value for money speaker making them to reach nearer to Kabers. Economically it is near free and also does not effect on the after sales value as it is invisible to the surface. Strongly recommended! This is one the best mods I have done against the investment!

Oz


Here's some photos:

(I am not sure if there exists that mid bottom drawn here - that's why the question mark. I did not check it but I am guessing it is there)

The red ones are the wooden pins I placed into my Keilidhs.

pinplacing.jpg


rivat1.jpg



Other modifications for the Keilidhs done are welcomed into this thread by all means!

.
 
Oz said:
Surprise awaited me how much better they sound now.

Gone is the lazyness and softy nature which always took Keilidhs apart
from KANs. Now my Keilidhs remind me of KANs by the speed and
slam. Also tunefulness had a remarkable lift. They also can take more
beating by power without going on their knees. What else could you ask for?
Click to expand...

Oz,
There is one very serious flaw in your theory. Why didn't you do it on the Kans too?

I know of Kan users who have put one dowel between the baffle and back panel. If you place one hand on the back of a Kan and the other hand on the front baffle between the drivers, you'll feel the cabinet "bellowing"; especially on low frequencies. A dowel, screwed and glued, greatly reduces this.

You're right, cabinet volume taken up by a dowel is less than the volume removed going to the "Ninka" tweeter.

Do the same to your Kans and report back.

Nice graphics. ;)

Ron The Mon
 
I would think the effect would be less on Kans as the Keilidhs have a larger non braced area.

Anyway my mod isnt really a mod ...

I have the system active and DONT use the top drivers, ie 2 way with only the lower bass. The difference in sound between the upper and lower bass is amazing. I dont know why as I thought it was the same driver but perhaps not. The sound is faster and tigher without the upper driver and i just adjust the amount of lower frequency on the crossover until i get a flat response again.

This may be the main reason for linniks success, the lower driver is labeled active bass and maybe its just better at doing bass ? Little to do with the bracing (though im sure it helps some anyway).

The sound from my system is now fantastic, almost too deep in bass with pace and an amount of acceleration i find hard to deal with! My recent 'flea' addtions and other tweaks to CD have really contributed to this.
 
trancera said:
I would think the effect would be less on Kans as the Keilidhs have a larger non braced area.
Click to expand...
WRONG!

It isn't possible as Kans are the third best speaker ever produced and any mod produces drastic results. (The second best speaker, if you're wondering, is active Kans)

I have only ever heard Keildhs active until recently. I have a good friend who has a Pekin-Ikemi, Kairn & ActiveKardKlouts. I have listened to this hi-fi for perhaps thousands of hours and could never understand why someone wouldn't like Keildhs. Then I heard a pair run off a Classik at a buddies' home. Pure junk. It reminded me of Craig car audio. Real crap.

I doubt Oz's mod would've changed my reaction. What is really needed in the world right now is "source-first" philosophy; which also means "LP-first". The more "online" listening takes off, the closer we are to the death of flat-earth hi-fi.

Oz, do you agree?

Ron The Mon
 
Ron,
I run a pair of Keilidhs and they do seem to need POWER. A 180 just wasn't good enough and my 250 is just adequate. I can hear it if there's a powerful bass line and the drummer decides to let loose with a rapid succession of hits on the snare drum. By the end of that the notes are coming out just a fraction after the time that they should as the 250 runs out of puff.

I'm not surprised that a Classik wasn't up to the job.
 
No Ron, you're barking it partly wrong way, IMHO.
I am not having any theory and I have not set Keilidhs into any kind of competition with KANs. I just said my Keilidhs went near same level of some musical properties with KANs by the modifications. And these are the unique, desired properties in KANs.

I have not had KANs for the last 3 years. But my customer/friend has.
Neither have we put hands on KANs front and back walls.
Not in doubt that is happening, however. It cannot be 100% stiff.

But KANs are A LOT more rigid than original Keilidhs.
(as are most small loudspeakers by nature)

After listening today, I can tell that my Keilidhs now go lower than before and what's more important: The TUNE goes with bass to the lowest point!!!
Before Keilidhs lost tune control with the lowest notes (unlike KANs).

In whole the musical beauty and effect has got much better by the mod.

Ron, source first is of course true but it is not too valid in this case.
I have done a lot of job with my source and pre. And power amps. It was time to dive into Keilidhs now for an hour or so. And the results showed clearly that it gave good reaps.

IF I had the source first case here now, I could not have enbettered the tune and rhythm like I did with Keilidhs. Got it, Ron?

In most cases people are really in the situation where source first is the point. And that will now continue with me, too. But if I did not lift my spkrs in this case, I would have had more difficult to realise what I am doing in the source and amps. Now I opened more listenable, better evaluatable system for going further in the start. In some level this will be inevitable and I knew it was such with my system now. I had thought this half an year but now it was high time.

And I do recommend this modification to anybody working with Linn/Naim systems. Others I cannot say if there is much musical reaps to get.

Answer is YES, Ron - with Classik, it would have been better, too.
But it is well known that Keilidhs take big leap by going active. That may very well also have something to do with the need of power as guessed in a previous post.

The happiest thing with my Keilidhs is that I did not expect them to go so near to KANs. But they did!! I am very happy for it. Fast, rhythmic and melodic thru the range. Not saying they are best or any second, third. No, no. But they are clearly better now than they were.

I am sure this same thing was the basic idea of Naim in their speakers. They realised long ago that to make a rigid speaker is to make it with a small enclosure. The second realisation of Naim was that by building every single driver into own dedicated box, they could also spike them boxes isolated from each other. BUT they had to think their heads off by creating the system which would allow a small box bass element and still offer it sufficient enclosure cubics. Finally they created the historical construction with a rubber/silicone collar...

Oz
 
Trancera,

I would not think there is any difference in the Keilidh mid/basses. The low bass by name is only telling which RCA's should the signal be taken from at the back of the AKTIV crossover. And differentiating the elements as the upper and the lower bass. Nothing else. Why there is low bass in the crossover is because Kabers CAN take advantage of it. As it's bulkhead between the mid/basses is closed. In Keilidh it is open unless you won't mod it closed.

The difference is that the upper mid/bass gives hostal vibrations to the tweeter frame.

You are saving quite much of that vibration by leaving your upper mid/bass unwired. Your tweeter can work much better. And your power amp is living a bit easier.

BUT you are doing a fundamental error there. You are loosing the musicality for sure as neither upper nor lower mid/bass is now working properly.

Get all of your drivers connected but make these moddings before it. Your Keilidhs will be fine speakers after that.

Oz
 
But Oz I tried and tried, i had a 250,250 and 180 on the tweeters (because those drivers really need some driving!)

Now back to two way, if i take the 250 off the lower bass and place on the upper its sounds completely different, awful lack of lower registers!

Strange I know, I just cant work it out!

But I LOVE them 2 way the way they are. My Keilidhs are fantastic.
 
kan man said:
Ron, What's the best speaker then?
Click to expand...
Steve,
The FEF107. It's weird that I've never read of a single member here hearing a pair, let alone owning them.

An aquaintance of mine had a pair run with LP12/NAT01, 42.5/Hi/135s. We compared them directly to Isobariks and Kans in his home before he puchased them. Those demos never left his living room. I've never seen a pair sell used anywhere.

Ron the Mon

P.S.
Upon reflection, the KEF107's design is very similar to what Oz has done (or theorized) to his Keilidhs.
 
Trancera - agreed! But Ron likes Kans possibly even more than I do and if he thinks there is something better I'm interested to know what it is.
 
Ron - thanks!

I've never heard of them. Will have a google to find out more. In case I can't, I'm guessing they're sealed but are they big or small?

Regards
Steve
 
trancera said:
But Oz I tried and tried, i had a 250,250 and 180 on the tweeters (because those drivers really need some driving!)

Now back to two way, if i take the 250 off the lower bass and place on the upper its sounds completely different, awful lack of lower registers!

Strange I know, I just cant work it out!

But I LOVE them 2 way the way they are. My Keilidhs are fantastic.
Click to expand...

Trancera,

It is possible you have your low freqs boosted now as the flapping free upper mid/bass changes the resonance freq of the lower mid/bass unit.

But in quality it goes busted.

Yeah, two way they are, but both mid/basses should be driven from the same signal. You can bi-amp or bi-wire but you should drive both.

IF YOU WANT REAL MUSIC. But of course it is your choice to do whatever.

Oz
 
Ahh. I've just googled FEF107, got 5 results and concluded that they were so rare I had no chance of finding out about them. You probably heard the pennies tinkling as I read the last line again. I have heard of them. Transmission line with 2 cubes on the top containing mids and tweets. They were about 25% more expensive than bricks and 7 times the price of Kans in 1986. HFR claimed they had the deepest bass of any speaker.
 
Here: http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/PersonalKefTreasures/CarlWestfield/Gallery/index.htm

But I don't know what they are to do with my Keilidhs?
Very thoroughly different design IMHO. Transmission line said kan man..

Keilidhs are a normal closed enclosure speakers where I just added few wooden pins to strenghten the rigidity.

Ron The Mon said:
Upon reflection, the KEF107's design is very similar to what Oz has done (or theorized) to his Keilidhs.
Click to expand...

Okay Ron, let's compare our drinks now! I have cooled dry Sherry.
You are obviously enjoying something more stiff?

Oz
 
Linnik said:
You can bi-amp or bi-wire but you should drive both.

IF YOU WANT REAL MUSIC. But of course it is your choice to do whatever.

Oz
Click to expand...


Oz, trust me, you are assuming you know what my system sounds like.

I have three pairs of Linns and stacks of Naim, I know what it should sound like. The way I have them now is the best they have ever been.

I will continue my experiments ...
 
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