Getting out of Naim...

[Still]

There's nothing about this on Naim's site.

IMO this is fairly clear:

The retailer will then professionally fit the equipment in your home: we insist on this not only to ensure that the system is safely and correctly installed but also to guarantee that its performance is optimised in your home environment.

http://www.naimaudio.com/buying-advice

 

[abbydog]

If you can't or don't want to cope with correct setup, Naim certainly isn't right for you.

And in my view this is fairly clear - doesn't mention dealers.

The retailer will then professionally fit the equipment in your home: we insist on this not only to ensure that the system is safely and correctly installed but also to guarantee that its performance is optimised in your home environment.

This suggests to me that I don't have to do anything except lay down by cash for a 555/552/500 and it will all be taken care of by the dealer.

So which is it guys?

Is it my responsibility or the dealer? Either way the result was shit - and I bought legit through a dealer at full retail.

 

[Avonessence]

If the gear "World Class Hi-Fi" Naim should offer a full no-quibbles refund 60-day period on all their gear.

If fact all UK Manufacturers should offer the same and a Lifetime Guarantee.

 

[prowla]

It is a hobby, and aspects of it are based on personal preference.
The products are luxury goods and may not (will not) be to everybody's liking.
It is not a crime to like or dislike a given item.
And it is not a crime either to change your mind and decide you want something else instead.
If it stops being a hobby and starts being a hassle then ditch it and do something else instead.

 

[dave]

There's nothing about this on Naim's site. There is a long speil about upgrading which makes a claim about fantastic residuals which must surely be out of date by now, going off the mountains of used kit in dealers, ebay and elsewhere.

On the boxes of my 500 series kit, it said 'world class hi-fi'. The problem is that there is a lot of genuine world class hi-fi out there which does not require 'correct set up.'

Does 'correct set-up' mean buying hi-lines, Power lines and Fraim, because on a £70k rig I think Naim's site should make very clear this extra spending is required.

Anyway, in my view the top stuff fails to work and by the time you get to the top of the pyramid (repeat pyramid) you find the dealer and Salisbury are long gone - unless you'd like to buy a cheapo £2k dac or some PowerLines, of course.

Blaming poor set up is the last refuge, in my hi-fi experience.

Anyway, don't apply for PR job at Salisbury, will you?

Abbydog,

You appear to be confusing upgrades with system setup in the case of Powerlines, Fraims and Hi-Lines none of which are required for producing good sound out of Naim. Regarding the quirky cables, Naim chose what it chose based on sound reasons. To make other more convenient choices would produce different results. Again, Naim isn't for everyone.

Also, did you ever think to ask yourself why do I want to climb this pyramid before beginning the journey?

regards,

dave

 

[Martyn Miles]

'Getting into Naim' V 'Getting out of Naim'. Was it me starting the first that instigated the second ? If so, I hope I can sleep well tonight. It reminds me of something William Shatner once said at a Star Trek Convention in the USA. He stood up and said just one thing, "Get a life!" And that inclues me... Martyn .

 

[abbydog]

Powerlines, Fraims and Hi-Lines none of which are required for producing good sound out of Naim.

Glad to hear it. Why are Powerlines included in the box, then?

Also, did you ever think to ask yourself why do I want to climb this mountain before beginning the journey?

Hey, I'm not being smart here. I f**ked up at great expense (my expense), based on my ownership of some great Naim kit - I've been a Naim owner for 30 years.

I bought 555/552/500 based on the reputation and my experience of a company - unfortunately, it appears to have been about 15 years out of date.

Off to listen to some music now - on a great system. There's life after Naim, after all!

 

[dave]

Glad to hear it. Why are Powerlines included in the box, then?

They are included with *some* boxes because Naim feel strongly enough about the improvement they bring. Compare against the number of products that don't include them.

Hey, I'm not being smart here. I f**ked up at great expense (my expense), based on my ownership of some great Naim kit - I've been a Naim owner for 30 years.

I bought 555/552/500 based on the reputation and my experience of a company - unfortunately, it appears to have been about 15 years out of date.

That was absolutely the wrong reason to buy a hifi of any sort from any company. Unfortunately, you learned an expensive lesson.

 

[abbydog]

(slight return)

That was absolutely the wrong reason to buy a hifi of any sort from any company. Unfortunately, you learned an expensive lesson.

Completely agree - its those 'residuals' they boast about on the website, you know.

 

[dave]

LOL...if it's one thing I've learned in my brief forty years in this hobby, you should only trust *your* ears. Past performance or reputations will have no bearing on whether you might like Next Year's Greatest - your tastes may change like Rich's.

 

[TLS]

Thread ends.

IMO, when you have found the loudspeakers that you like, electronics take a second place.

 

[abbydog]

Dave,

I still own chrome bumber 135s. I have a good grip on whether my tastes and/or Naim have changed here. I didn't say I 'didn't like the sound'. I said 'didn't work'. To me being able to repeatably perform to a standard over a period of months, or to effectively drive a pair of speakers in the same price class are not 'tastes.'


Don't apply for that PR job...

 

[dave]

Dave,

I still own chrome bumber 135s. I have a good grip on whether my tastes and/or Naim have changed here. I didn't say I 'didn't like the sound'. I said 'didn't work'. To me being able to repeatably perform to a standard over a period of months, or to effectively drive a pair of speakers in the same price class are not 'tastes.'


Don't apply for that PR job...

No worries, I'm not interested in a PR job w/any company;-)

Didn't work or didn't sound good are effectively the same thing if for no other reason than you're not satisfied with your purchase. If it's the case of a production problem with a particular CDP (which I have a feeling you maybe suggesting), it's an unfortunate problem which I hope the company will resolve for all owners.

 

[James]

Didn't work or didn't sound good are effectively the same thing if for no other reason than you're not satisfied with your purchase. If it's the case of a production problem with a particular CDP (which I have a feeling you maybe suggesting), it's an unfortunate problem which I hope the company will resolve for all owners.

I'm not sure about this at all. The NAP135s I once owned sounded great, but they didn't work all that well when I pushed them. Their fans were audible on a warm day, and the SOA was tripped more often than I liked. The dealer suggestion was an upgrade to NAP300. I looked elsewhere ...

James

 

[dave]

I'm not sure about this at all. The NAP135s I once owned sounded great, but they didn't work all that well when I pushed them. Their fans were audible on a warm day, and the SOA was tripped more often than I liked. The dealer suggestion was an upgrade to NAP300. I looked elsewhere ...

James

The dealer was possibly making his best recommendation which may have been incorrect in this case. No one said Naim or other dealers are infallible.

You did the sensible thing and investigated the problem instead of blindly throwing money at it which is what I'm on about.

 

[Mike Reed]

I can't think of another established hifi company which has attracted, and STILL attracts, so much controversy. Not even Linn comes close.

Is it their service? NOPE Only raised voices over this aspect is the price.

Is it their reliablilty? NOPE. Despite advised servicing intervals, many old unserviced pieces are still soldiering on.

Is their cosmetic design philosophy? Hardly, as they've all been rather understated, from initial bolt-together to the present.

Is it their avant-garde electronic design philosophy? Well, there are a few moans (on this thread as well) about the 'upgrade treadmill' of power supplies. I rather doubt Julian Vereker had the treadmill in mind when he established his power supply precedent. After all, it works !

Ah ! It must be the highish prices charged, challenging the v.f.m. aspect. But NO, because the historically high residual values surely compensate.

So WHY all this controversy over the years?

The only answer I can come up with is that it has always been a very successful and well-ordered company with global coverage and a Queen's Award which seems to go from strength to strength.

Regardless of tastes in presentation, I think this smacks of 'dog in a manger'

Furthermore, if anybody has chosen a good Naim system with any compliant speaker system and found it wanting, it'll be down to poor mains supply, room inadequacy, set-up or simply growing older and changing musical/presentational tastes.

I just got older........... (but still have few bits)

 

[lindsayt]

...Lotus, what did you manage to get for £1000? My system B comes in at £1300 including the Nait and some second hand speakers, and I thought that was doing well.

I think it might be possible to put together a £1000 system that would sound at least as good as a top end all Naim system.

The system would be based on: a PC or MAC (free as almost everyone has one), a decent budget DAC (£250), decent vintage amps (£250), decent large vintage horn speakers (£500).

Anyone got a top Naim system they'd be willing to bake-off against my £1000 challenger? If the Naim system's better, then that's fine as it'll show what you get by climbing all the way to the top of the Naim ladder instead of going the budget 2nd hand route.

 

[LOTUS HIFI]

So WHY all this controversy over the years?

It's because naim now represent the father figure.

People with an inappropritaely vitriolic reaction toward them (rather than balanced and informed criticism) will have a weak, absent or ambivalent father in their childhood.

 

[LOTUS HIFI]

Second, your complaint about the current product mix is justified IMO. It's very confusing; however, a chat with your dealer and/or the company should narrow the choices for a single solution that's best for you.

Being confused isn't the problem though. I just don't want them to be THAT sort of company. I prefer the anorak potting shed that is 100% passion and completely devoid of bean counters. Not everyone wants the downsides of that type of outfit though.

 

[LOTUS HIFI]

Glad to hear it. Why are Powerlines included in the box, then?



Hey, I'm not being smart here. I f**ked up at great expense (my expense), based on my ownership of some great Naim kit - I've been a Naim owner for 30 years.

I bought 555/552/500 based on the reputation and my experience of a company - unfortunately, it appears to have been about 15 years out of date.

Off to listen to some music now - on a great system. There's life after Naim, after all!

Hi abby, out of interest what do you use nowadays ?