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Getting out of Naim...

Why doesn't everyone create a thread every time they change their amplificatio..........?
 
Thread ends. ;)

I've done it.

Came on here all Naim guns ablazing, armed really only with my knowledge of how things were 15 years ago, and thought I wanted a full active SBL setup with an LP12 and a CDS3.

Everyone told me otherwise, i ignored them, bought a shedload of naim, tried to get it to work, realised my ears had changed in the last 20 years and bingo, 6 months on I now have a totally different system which is exactly the sound that works for me rather than what I thought I wanted, and gives me qualities that a Naim system just can't. In terms of all the regular dem-room sonic criteria it offers the same level of performance as a 500 series reference system but at a third or quarter of the price.

There's not much wrong with Naim though IMO. You pay for great residuals, longevity, support, a wide knowledgeable user base (if a little blind sighted :p), a brand that looks good and emotionally feels good and has in built consumer status. You are buying into something tried and tested and overall its a pretty non anxiety-laden purchase.

What does bother me though is the plethora of new products which get released monthly. It smacks of 'flavour of the month' marketing, much like your Canon digital cameras. There seem to be so many different naits and streamers and different CDPs now, Ive almost lost track. My suspicion is that there is now a mixture of great and not so great whereas 20 years ago everything from an ARO to a CDi and a Nac72 was a great product. The focused purity and simplicity of the company has been compromised. That said, I accept that this is modern day business and what one must do to prosper at a certain level and beyond.

Also the other thing that puts me off is the multiple box, never ending upgradeitis structure of it all which seems to afflict most users. Take a look at the forums and the endless "you need a hiline/555ps/252 to make it sound right" posts to witness what I refer to. It's my belief that a good system for a £1000 should be just that, a good system, which provides music for decades there onwards. It shouldn't need an IC or another power supply lavished on it to make it sound 'less harsh' for example. The prospect of always being able to add one more box which makes the old system sound 'broken' is one which IME inherently breeds disatisfaction and a focus on the gear rather than the musicians. Once you get to the 500 series it also seems that it is so damm tweaky and sensitive to setup. The slightest twist in a burndy or the slightest loosening of a Fraim spike and 60k's worth goes completely to pot. That would completely do my head in.

I think I also realised this time round that a lot of what attracted me to Naim in the old days was the small potting shed nature of the company, the slightly cultish looks and image and the esoteric underground nature of it all. But they moved away from that long ago now and other companies now like Tron and DV fullfill that image.

The last 3 paragraphs of course are all very subjective and my own personal feelings which won't apply to most people. The bottom line is always the sound and for many people, they still love the Naim groove which although radically different from the chrome sound, still seems to follow the same basic principles, albeit tweaked for a much larger audience. Use your ears and vote with your feet. I did, and just discovered that I wanted different things, preferably at more affordable prices as well.
 
So far I've got out of:
Cambridge Audio
NAD
Epos
Marantz
Naim
Densen
Triangle.

I've got back into:
Naim
NAD
Marantz

Couldn't give a damn about the upgrade rubbish nor the snobbery. My budget defines how much I can spend, and my ears decide what I can buy.

Lotus, what did you manage to get for £1000? My system B comes in at £1300 including the Nait and some second hand speakers, and I thought that was doing well.
 
Lotus, what did you manage to get for £1000? My system B comes in at £1300 including the Nait and some second hand speakers, and I thought that was doing well.

Jack-in-the-box missed a zero. His system is more like £10,000+. Its very similar to what I have and we have both been down similar Naim routes before we found for what we were looking.

Thats not to say that you can't get a good system for £1000. I still have a NAD amplifier..............

Cheers,

DV
 
Just to address a few points brought up by Rich from another perspective...

First, there's nothing wrong with moving away from Naim if it no longer increases your musical enjoyment. Matter of fact, Naim itself would recommend you do the same.

Second, your complaint about the current product mix is justified IMO. It's very confusing; however, a chat with your dealer and/or the company should narrow the choices for a single solution that's best for you.

Regarding upgrades...this form of choice is considered a good thing normally. If you can't resist the urge to "upgrade" like most Naim users (contrary to what you might read from a few active forum posters which aren't representative of all other Naim owners), you might want to reconsider your decision making process as well the importance or value of material things in life in general or least relative to your income or family's needs.

Comments like "you need a hiline/555ps/252 to make it sound right" are usually not helpful unless the poster has ESP and can magically deduce what you've interpreted as wrong with your system. This "advice" should always be ignored as it bypasses the strong possibilty of a setup issue which can be most likely fixed at zero cost.


Setup quirks: No one at Naim ever said their gear was plug and play (nor is it.) You can choose to maximize its performance (and the thousands of dollars you've spent) or not. It's that simple. If you can't or don't want to cope with correct setup, Naim certainly isn't right for you.

I understand and miss the charm of the old "potting shed" days as well but times move on and ultimately all that matters is a sound that we enjoy, service and longevity.

regards,

dave
 
Yeah, thinking about it you're probably right - I'm sure I saw one of your mates padding about outside half an hour a go...
 
Jack-in-the-box missed a zero. His system is more like £10,000+. Its very similar to what I have and we have both been down similar Naim routes before we found for what we were looking.

Thats not to say that you can't get a good system for £1000. I still have a NAD amplifier..............

Cheers,

DV

well more like ~24k brand new... not sure what i've paid secondhand all in total, i've kind of stopped counting as that's probably the best policy :(

avole, when i said £1000 i was just talking figuratively and pulling that figure from a hat to make a point
 
I would like to hear if anyone has tried a setup from Soulution. I sometimes buy HiFi magazines from the
UK and they have a full page ad and as they are a European brand the pricing and availability might be
better than in the US.
 
No one at Naim ever said their gear was plug and play (nor is it.) You can choose to maximize its performance (and the thousands of dollars you've spent) or not. It's that simple. If you can't or don't want to cope with correct setup, Naim certainly isn't right for you.

There's nothing about this on Naim's site. There is a long speil about upgrading which makes a claim about fantastic residuals which must surely be out of date by now, going off the mountains of used kit in dealers, ebay and elsewhere.

On the boxes of my 500 series kit, it said 'world class hi-fi'. The problem is that there is a lot of genuine world class hi-fi out there which does not require 'correct set up.'

Does 'correct set-up' mean buying hi-lines, Power lines and Fraim, because on a £70k rig I think Naim's site should make very clear this extra spending is required.

Anyway, in my view the top stuff fails to work and by the time you get to the top of the pyramid (repeat pyramid) you find the dealer and Salisbury are long gone - unless you'd like to buy a cheapo £2k dac or some PowerLines, of course.

Blaming poor set up is the last refuge, in my hi-fi experience.

Anyway, don't apply for PR job at Salisbury, will you?
 


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