General Election 2024

[tiggers]

The current Labour Party is closer to the ‘old school’ tory party than the current tory party. Which is why they will form the next govt.

Sorry Ponty, but they will only form the next government due to our awful FPTP voting system. Only one of two parties can get elected with this system and as more people want rid of the Tories than want to keep them by default Labour will form the next government. Other than doing something really stupid policy wise they cannot lose... the fact that they are likely to be barely any better than the Tories is of no matter... and whether they are closer to Thatcherism than the Tories is an irrelevance. People are voting for them as they don't want the Tories not because they want Labour or their policies.

My personal vote will be going to the Greens as quite aside from anything else I could never vote for parties who actively support and encourage mass murder by a sovereign state. The fact that the rest of their policies and beliefs are also hugely weighted towards politics I despise helps I guess. I used to be a Labour Party member and, like my friend mentioned above with the Tories, I find the current Labour Party unrecognisable and abhorrent.

 

[ks.234]

The current Labour Party is closer to the ‘old school’ tory party than the current tory party. Which is why they will form the next govt.

Yes, agree in principle, but if by “old school” you mean One Nation Tories, then Labour are some way to the right of that position, if you mean Thatcherite, Labour are carrying on with that project as it has developed.

Labour are to the right of the current Tory Party.

Which is why they will form the next govt.

 

[paulfromcamden]

YouGov poll on voting intentions by demographics. No surprise that the over 70s back the Tories/Reform but interesting to see the Green Party become the second largest party for under 40s.

How is Britain voting as the 2024 general election campaign begins? | YouGov

The Conservatives have a mountain to climb, with support low even among their traditional supporters

yougov.co.uk

 

[Dave H.]

It has but in the case of our council its mismanagement on a massive scale by a labour run authority

Which had masses of its funding cut by the Tory central government and so had its ability to respond to crises hobbled.

It’s fair enough to point to issues within the council itself, and I’m no particular supporter of the council or the party. But it’s rubbish to say that it’s all on Labour or the council themselves. The government has stripped councils all over the country of millions upon millions in funding.

That’s why other councils are also screwed, including a number of Tory run councils either also bankrupt or close to it.

 

[zeon]

Which had masses of its funding cut by the Tory central government and so had its ability to respond to crises hobbled.

It’s fair enough to point to issues within the council itself, and I’m no particular supporter of the council or the party. But it’s rubbish to say that it’s all on Labour or the council themselves. The government has stripped councils all over the country of millions upon millions in funding.

That’s why other councils are also screwed, including a number of Tory run councils either also bankrupt or close to it.

Money , money, money ! Its all about money, but is it though ?

 

[tiggers]

YouGov poll on voting intentions by demographics. No surprise that the over 70s back the Tories/Reform but interesting to see the Green Party become the second largest party for under 40s.

How is Britain voting as the 2024 general election campaign begins? | YouGov

The Conservatives have a mountain to climb, with support low even among their traditional supporters

yougov.co.uk

Hmmm, look at the way Reform is carving up the vote for the uber right wing. Assuming if they did not exist all people voting for them would vote Tory and it's quite a different picture overall.

We need to stop the over 50s (that's me btw) from voting

 

[Ponty]

Yes, agree in principle, but if by “old school” you mean One Nation Tories, then Labour are some way to the right of that position, if you mean Thatcherite, Labour are carrying on with that project as it has developed.

Labour are to the right of the current Tory Party.

Which is why they will form the next govt.

From the perspective of the current electorate, I’m talking Thatcher, Major, Cameron. Watched Rachel Reeves on the beeb earlier, aside from VAT on school fees (grandstanding which will cost more than it raises IMHO), she’s a Conservative Party chancellor.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Hmmm, look at the way Reform is carving up the vote for the uber right wing. Assuming if they did not exist all people voting for them would vote Tory and it's quite a different picture overall.

We need to stop the over 50s (that's me btw) from voting

On election day I will be laying trails of Werther's Originals to divert racist crumblies away from the polling station.

 

[ks.234]

From the perspective of the current electorate, I’m talking Thatcher, Major, Cameron. Watched Rachel Reeves on the beeb earlier, aside from VAT on school fees (grandstanding which will cost more than it raises IMHO), she’s a Conservative Party chancellor.

Absolutely. Reeves is Thatcherite through and through as she has repeatedly made explicit

Which is why Labour will be carrying on the Thatcherite project with the same results

Yours is a very clear eyed assessment of Labour.

 

[Tony L]

Hmmm, look at the way Reform is carving up the vote for the uber right wing. Assuming if they did not exist all people voting for them would vote Tory and it's quite a different picture overall.

It is quite an encouraging poll to my eyes. It is only the 70+ age that are majority far-right/fascist. All other demographics are wherever we are pinning Labour on the map or to the left/progressive of that.

I suspect a lot of this is education and IT literacy. The 70+ demographic will be the last ones relying on the right-wing printed press, no one else reads the Mail, Express, Telegraph these days aside from maybe skimming the websites as part of a far wider spread of information sources. I’d not be surprised if the historical shift to the right with age doesn’t reduce over time as fewer people will just be sitting in their homes getting far-right brain-rot from the gutter tabloids or Telegraph. That media is dead and the likes of GB News is not replacing it (FWIW I suspect GBN is mainly a tax write-off money-laundering scam to bribe Tory MPs, it may well collapse sometime after the election).

 

[droodzilla]

Professional racist Nigel Farage is currently on Trevor Philips’ Sky show being a professional racist. An unashamed fascist.

PS I’m no fan of Trevor Philips, this show was way better with Sophie Ridge IMO, but he’s allowing Farage to come across as a real piece of shit. Just staggering degrees of racism.

The real question is why the **** is Farage on TV. Again.

 

[MVV]

I agree Labour are a modern version of the old one nation conservatives and their position on Gaza is shameful.
I also agree that the whole system is not fit for a modern democracy. It needs complete reform part of which would be a move to somewhere like Birmingham and disposing of all the old nonsense. I will not see that.
However I would urge everybody to hold their nose and vote for anyone with a chance of unseating a Conservative even, God forbid, Reform because at best they will have about 5 temporary MPs and can be easily marginalised.

 

[Seanm]

I almost feel for traditional old school Tory members who must look at the party and wonder how it came to be run by the current load of absolute loonies.

I'm very glad to hear you won't be canvassing in support of this lot Mick.

It would be nice to think the direction of travel would be towards the centre but the bookies choice for next leader is still Kemi Badenoch - self-proclaimed nemesis of wokism...

I suspect 2029 will be a lot closer - simply because the country is in such a mess that whatever improvements Labour achieve over the next few years is likely to fall short of people's expectations.

Don’t let them off the hook. If Labour fail to make significant improvements it won’t be because the problems are intractable but because fixing them isn’t compatible with their politics, skillset and career plans. People are *rightly* going to be angry at having their hopes dashed, and this will be a good thing.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I'm sure the police, fire service and NHS will be thrilled to be lumbered with a load of moody teenagers once a month.

The little darlings can pick litter, clean streets etc. Make them wear an orange outfit for visibility / safety, obviously.

 

[droodzilla]

I agree Labour are a modern version of the old one nation conservatives and their position on Gaza is shameful.
I also agree that the whole system is not fit for a modern democracy. It needs complete reform part of which would be a move to somewhere like Birmingham and disposing of all the old nonsense. I will not see that.
However I would urge everybody to hold their nose and vote for anyone with a chance of unseating a Conservative even, God forbid, Reform because at best they will have about 5 temporary MPs and can be easily marginalised.

They really aren't. They are Cameron/Osborne era Tories (i.e. well to the right of Thatcher), at best.

 

[ks.234]

I agree Labour are a modern version of the old one nation conservatives and their position on Gaza is shameful.

One Nation Conservatism was part of the post war social democratic consensus. The Labour Party is a long way to the right of that position.

The social democratic consensus was first undone by Callaghan before it was overturned by Thatcher.

I also agree that the whole system is not fit for a modern democracy. It needs complete reform part of which would be a move to somewhere like Birmingham and disposing of all the old nonsense. I will not see that.
However I would urge everybody to hold their nose and vote for anyone with a chance of unseating a Conservative even, God forbid, Reform because at best they will have about 5 temporary MPs and can be easily marginalised.

You are absolutely correct when you say our current system is not fit for democracy.

“Capitalism's greatest problem, which it is always seeking to solve, is called democracy. And capitalism was getting along just fine before most adults led the vote. And when most adults led the vote, they started using it to say, well, you know, we don't want to be exploited.​

​

We don't want our labour captured and all the value pulled out of it and given to someone else. We don't want to be treated as modern serfs. We don't want our rivers polluted.​

​

We don't want our air polluted. We want to live in decent housing. In fact, we'd like publicly funded services as well.​

​

In fact, we'd also like a welfare state, an economic safety net, all these things which are inimical to raw capitalism. And ever since then, capitalism has been trying to fix this problem. And it wasn't particularly good at it, but neoliberalism has given it the solution and it's now become extremely good at fixing this problem and indeed at surviving and expanding even within the nominally democratic era.”​

From The Owen Jones Podcast: A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot, 23 May 2024

‎The Owen Jones Podcast: A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Owen Jones Podcast, Ep A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot - 22 May 2024

podcasts.apple.com

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Mike Reed]

YouGov poll on voting intentions by demographics.

Interesting, Paul. One can extrapolate quite a few things from that (unusually) clearly defined graph (graph?). The older the age, the more inclined to vote Conservative and similarly, Reform, with corresponding decline in Labour. Lib-Dem's are obviously ageless and verdigris seems to decline with age, though I've thought the opposite as old codgers oxidise.

 

[gavreid]

From The Owen Jones Podcast: A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot, 23 May 2024

Monbiot's comment about the neoliberals having a narrative prepared and ready to sell is a tremendously important lesson. I think we can be sure that the far right will be ready to pounce on the wreckage of the Starmer Government...

 

[Seanm]

On national service, here’s centrist crush Chuka Ummana in 2019:

National service should be compulsory for the young, says Chuka Umunna

The new Independent Group spokesman also wants more financial help for people to go to university.

metro.co.uk

Honestly it’s one of those weird Westminster things that keeps coming up when someone, anyone, needs a “fresh” idea but won’t countenance actual change (see also: childcare, house building). Measure of how detached from reality they all are and how they all draw from the same very limited set of ideas. Don’t be surprised if Labour’s Lammy brings it up again at some stage.

 

[Mick P]

Hmmm, look at the way Reform is carving up the vote for the uber right wing. Assuming if they did not exist all people voting for them would vote Tory and it's quite a different picture overall.

We need to stop the over 50s (that's me btw) from voting

One worrying result when canvassing was that a lot of under 25yrs said they would vote for Reform.