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Gas and Electricity Prices

The potential energy of falling matter is

e(Watts) = mgΔh/t where m is in Kg, g=acceleration due to gravity, Δh the drop in height in metres and t=time in seconds

From the above we can see that the potential Wattage available is proportional to the falling mass times its drop. Then factor in the losses for a realistic electrical output.

Science is fun no?

DV
 
My fixed dual tariff ends soon and have just had the renewal quote through from BG, I'm glad I was sitting down because it has gone up £6 p/m.
 
I happened across a hydro plant in Switzerland a couple of weeks ago. With a head of 250m and 2,300 l/s flow its rated output was 4.3MW, and produces 21GWh annually. It was the size of a modest house.

Back on thread though - the hotel we were at was in parts 100 years old and a classic Swiss chalet design, yet with no heating the place was almost unbearably warm at times. The walls were thick and windows in pristine condition. I get the impression there is a constant renovation of properties and standards revision going on, I certainly saw evidence of that as most properties had their date of build on the front and looked extremely well maintained. For the record this is in Mürren in the Bernese Oberland where hotel rooms outnumber residents by 4:1 but I wonder if this is representative of the country at large. The only un-kempt properties we saw between Interlaken and Luzern were very definitely only cow sheds.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if they dumped HS2 and instead invested in the Severn Barrage?

Phase 1 of HS2 won't be cancelled now. With so much already invested, to cancel would be an embarrassing waste of money and opportunity that would make Boris's failed £53m Garden Bridge project look good value. I do fear that Phases 2a and 2b will be scaled back or may not even go ahead at all, 2b especially. For me, given how far we are committed, we should just go fully for it without any cutbacks.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if they dumped HS2 and instead invested in the Severn Barrage?
Not sure about a full barrage. That has implications for upstream habitat and ecosystems. But I do think a series of large tidal lagoons could produce meaningful amounts of energy. Designed properly they could probably generate on the inflow and outflow cycles, reducing intermittency.
 
Besides the collective cost/benefit the obvious thing is that most houses will need some modification/improvement so even the selfish will benefit.

I’m fine with it for govt owned properties. Sorry, I just don’t think private home owners should be subsidised by the state (other taxpayers). Many are walking around their houses in shorts and t shirt in the middle of winter with the house permanently at 25 degrees. I’m not going to subsidise their fuel bill.

Meanwhile, there is talk of heavy industry shutdowns.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...downs-as-wholesale-gas-price-hits-record-high
 
I’m fine with it for govt owned properties. Sorry, I just don’t think private home owners should be subsidised by the state (other taxpayers). Many are walking around their houses in shorts and t shirt in the middle of winter with the house permanently at 25 degrees. I’m not going to subsidise their fuel bill.
And yet people seem perfectly happy for the huge costs of the utilities/roads etc to be laid up/maintained to their properties to be paid for by others don't they?
 
Phase 1 of HS2 won't be cancelled now. With so much already invested, to cancel would be an embarrassing waste of money and opportunity that would make Boris's failed £53m Garden Bridge project look good value. I do fear that Phases 2a and 2b will be scaled back or may not even go ahead at all, 2b especially. For me, given how far we are committed, we should just go fully for it without any cutbacks.

I suspect you're right. There little point in HS2 without the whole thing
 
I happened across a hydro plant in Switzerland a couple of weeks ago. With a head of 250m and 2,300 l/s flow its rated output was 4.3MW, and produces 21GWh annually. It was the size of a modest house.

Back on thread though - the hotel we were at was in parts 100 years old and a classic Swiss chalet design, yet with no heating the place was almost unbearably warm at times. The walls were thick and windows in pristine condition. I get the impression there is a constant renovation of properties and standards revision going on, I certainly saw evidence of that as most properties had their date of build on the front and looked extremely well maintained. For the record this is in Mürren in the Bernese Oberland where hotel rooms outnumber residents by 4:1 but I wonder if this is representative of the country at large. The only un-kempt properties we saw between Interlaken and Luzern were very definitely only cow sheds.
Thats about 76% efficient! Amazing.

Cheers,

DV
 
Maybe you could stop with the snide comments. Are you a gas fitter (or Russian oligarch) as you really seem to be in denial about gas? It's environmentally damaging and it's finished as a future source of energy for domestic and commercial properties. Deal with it.
+1 on this. It would be nice to hear about solutions and not excuses for inaction. The status quo will wreck the lives of future generations and line the pockets of Putin and oil/gas companies. Apart from the monetary cost (£6K/month in some cases reported here) just look at the full cost, e.g., the oil spill this week in California, the air and water quality impacts of fracking, extreme weather events...Instead of bringing up the edge cases (grade 2 cottages in conservation areas) or lack of capital (are there no banks in the UK?) or other anecdotal evidence, it would be great to hear more on what works to not only achieve financial security but simply do the right thing for future generations and the planet. For example, putting solar panels on our house means electricity market fluctuations don’t impact my outgoing costs at all. At time of install pay back was less then 10 years, immediately increased the value of my home, and does anyone think energy costs are really going to do anything but increase on average into the future?
 
+1 on this. It would be nice to hear about solutions and not excuses for inaction. The status quo will wreck the lives of future generations and line the pockets of Putin and oil/gas companies. Apart from the monetary cost (£6K/month in some cases reported here) just look at the full cost, e.g., the oil spill this week in California, the air and water quality impacts of fracking, extreme weather events...Instead of bringing up the edge cases (grade 2 cottages in conservation areas) or lack of capital (are there no banks in the UK?) or other anecdotal evidence, it would be great to hear more on what works to not only achieve financial security but simply do the right thing for future generations and the planet. For example, putting solar panels on our house means electricity market fluctuations don’t impact my outgoing costs at all. At time of install pay back was less then 10 years, immediately increased the value of my home, and does anyone think energy costs are really going to do anything but increase on average into the future?
A small clarification. It was £6k / year…not month, unless I made a big typo! That was my quoted fix. Standard variable with the cap brings this down to £4K.

I don’t know whether this classifies as an edge case…there are many Victorian and Edwardian houses with 10ft+ high ceilings. Get on step ladder to change an (LED!) bulb…you really find out where the heat from the radiators has gone. Maybe we should lower our ceilings.
 
Ooops, sorry about the misquote. Still not a small chunk of change. My entire PV system cost me less than $10K after federal and state tax credits, and that was under Trump!

I seem to recall that modern lower temperature radiators and in floor systems heat more by radiating IR than convection. So maybe that helps when it comes to heating people rather than the ceiling.
 
I suspect they're fine for people with more money than sense. £1500 for a highly efficient, cost effective gas boiler to be fitted or £12k plus a complete house renovation for something not guaranteed to work for everyone. Long way to go yet.

A significant part of your argument is centred on what can only be called the artificially low price of gas at this time. This has a lot to do with the fact that, as a country, we still don't seem to have realised that we no longer have a shed load of our own gas in the North Sea................. You are also ignoring the environmental impact of burning all this gas........................

Very substantial changes need to be made and an awful lot of people aren't going to be happy bunnies unless they adjust their mind set.

What do you tell your children after you've installed you new super efficient gas boiler????

Regards

Richard
 
Underfloor heating is the way forward but mostly for new builds.

Working fine in our 1859 stone built farmhouse........................, it can be made to work anywhere.

It wasn't an overnight success story and represents a fair investment....................................

Regards

Richard
 
I get the impression there is a constant renovation of properties and standards revision going on, I certainly saw evidence of that as most properties had their date of build on the front and looked extremely well maintained.
Our constant drive for maintaining houses is due to our tax system. When you buy/build a flat or house, you have to fill in a rather complicated form with lots of questions about say square meters, what the rooms are used for, size of the balcony, have you got a swimming pool and of what size, parking spaces etc. etc. Anyway the tax administration will then determine your imputed (virtual) rental value which you will pay revenue tax on. Which can be rather high. The best way to reduce this nasty effect is to renovate your house and deduce the costs, spread on several years if they exceed the yearly limit.

There are efforts all the time to scrap this imputed rental value, but they are all doomed. First of all, banks (need I say that they run the country) are all too happy to finance those permanent renovation costs, and the federal tax administration fears reduced tax income. Personally I rather like the system, it generates a lot of economical activity and investments, which benefit everyone in the end. This tax scheme is also one of the reasons why you won't find many 'skyscrapers' in Swizzieland, buildings which can vaguely be called that way can be counted on two hands.

These last 15 years of close to zero mortgage rates, added to our tax system, have of course the side effect that everyone is building and renovating like crazy everywhere, and there's no end in sight. In a similar fashion, everything is done to motivate people to scrap their cars after 7-8 years and buy sparkling new ones.

Pave every inch, why so stingy. Get an electric car but possibly a Tesla X, they're cool. Global warming, wazzat ?! Sometimes I almost understand Extinction Rebellion and their so-so actions, although even these guys don't give me the impression that they're really ready to live a simpler life.
 
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