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Garrard 401/SME3009

K

kensalriser

pfm Member
I've just (re)discovered my late father's turntable, a Garrard 401 with an SME 3009 arm and Shure cartridge (not sure which model, but from photos online, probably a V15II supertrack). My guess is it all date from the early 70s, but it could be late 60s. I'd love to see how it would shape up against my Xerxes, but I suspect the cartridge is MM, and I only have MC input.

I remember as a child marvelling at how brilliant records sounded on his system (Quad 30/303, Celestion Ditton 25) but I'm wondering if it can stand up to a decent modern system. I did think about replacing the RB 300 on the Xerxes with the SME, but then what would I use with the Garrard?
 
An original 401 invariably needs a lot of refurbishing. The SME should be fine. The v15/ii was discontinued in early 1973. It could be made into a fabulous system but it wont be cheap.
 
Garrards are not hard to work on assuming you are mechanically competent and every part needed is likely available in the community. Certainly no need at all to blow huge cash on boutique rebuilds etc. A really good strip down, clean and re-lube is likely all it will need to get it working nicely.
 
My uncle had exactly the same with celef mini professionals and a trio amplifier. The sound to me then was amazing and got me into hi fi although I couldn’t buy any for years later. He had another headshel he would use for his 78 cartridge. His 50s rock and roll 78s sounded great too.
 
kensalriser said:
I've just (re)discovered my late father's turntable, a Garrard 401 with an SME 3009 arm and Shure cartridge (not sure which model, but from photos online, probably a V15II supertrack). My guess is it all date from the early 70s, but it could be late 60s. I'd love to see how it would shape up against my Xerxes, but I suspect the cartridge is MM, and I only have MC input.

I remember as a child marvelling at how brilliant records sounded on his system (Quad 30/303, Celestion Ditton 25) but I'm wondering if it can stand up to a decent modern system. I did think about replacing the RB 300 on the Xerxes with the SME, but then what would I use with the Garrard?
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A Xerxes will thrash a 401 and an SME 3009 is a very poor arm IMHO... looks lovely, sounds flat and boring.
 
kensalriser said:
That's nothing if not unequivocal! So is the allure of such things akin to classic cars?
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With some old gear yes... other items can still cut it with the modern stuff... and some folks will tell you that old gear I consider average at best, compared to modern gear, is in fact the dogs dangly bits..

There seems to be an audiophile "type" that likes gear, often old gear, that gives a bit of a "soft focus", lacking a bit in high treble and low bass, not very detailed, and sounds rather veiled and muddy to me...
 
Arkless Electronics said:
A Xerxes will thrash a 401...
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You've got to be kidding! I owned a Xerxes once and it was one of the only pieces of hi-fi that I couldn't get rid of quick enough! A budget deck at an audiophile price IMHO. A Garrard 401 is a lovely deck, absolutely rock solid, but I do agree with you about the SME 3009 (I had one of those too).
 
kensalriser said:
That's nothing if not unequivocal! So is the allure of such things akin to classic cars?
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A Garrard will murder a Xerxes. It will most decks this side of £5k. It will an LP12. The arm, hmm. A 3009 is good but not great. It's the weaker link.

My Garrard went to a bake off, we recorded them blind. It had a nice arm and a £100 cart. It was up against some serious exotica, £10k carts, all sorts. On blind listening it came 3rd overall, as voted on here. This is competition from SME, Phonosophie, Linn, WT, the best of the best.
 
Room for all opinion in the world of hi fi... even if you're both wrong:D
I've turned down FREE 401's several times... that's what I reckon of them... rumble from the jumble.. sale...
And I rate the Xerxes as in the very highest echelons on sound quality... even if longevity is suspect...
 
Weren't worth a fortune then (1984 - 1992 ish) and were from a mate who always stipulated on such things that they must not be sold on under any circumstances...
 
Well, next bakeoff in the North, you bring your best TT, I'll bring the Garrard, we'll play a few records and see what people think. It's seen off most competition.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
A Xerxes will thrash a 401 and an SME 3009 is a very poor arm IMHO... looks lovely, sounds flat and boring.
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Leaving aside the truly horrible sub-MFI build quality of the Xerxes (original model anyway) the only thing it will beat a 401 on is noise-floor IMHO. If one actually wants to listen to the music rather than the gaps between tracks I’d pick the Garrard every single time!
 
Tony L said:
...truly horrible sub-MFI build quality...
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That really does sum it up TBH; if you look at the build quality of either of the Garrards, there really is no contest. As for the noise floor, the 401 is really quiet if mounted correctly & if you add a decent supply and remove the eddy current brake, it gets better still. It's not just the Xerxes, the build quality of older Linn LP12's were pretty awful too, but if poor engineering were an Olympic sport, the original Xerxes would have won the gold medal every time.
 
Rockmeister said:
blind testing?
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Yes, no problem. We did that at flat p 's place a few years ago, did needledrops and posted blind links here. My Garrard came 3rd iirc and smoked a lot of serious money TTs. That's blind testing, numbered references only, repeated in different orders. The drops have been removed for copyright reasons, the results are still here.
 
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