advertisement


Garrard 301/401 versus Thorens TD124

Garth

Garth

pfm Member
I have already posted another thread looking for input on Thorens TD124's but am hoping this thread will lure in some PFM'ers who have compared these to the Garrard's. I am wondering what the differences are in terms of sound, dependablility, ease of restoring, etc. If I lived in the U.K, I think it would be a pretty clear choice in favour of the Garrard given they seem quite thick on the ground and of course having Loricraft there is a huge bonus. Given the weight of these machines, shipping to N.A., different voltage, etc. all make it much easier and economical to source a machine over here. Over here in Canada it seems that there are equal or more Thorens TD124's. Money is an issue but I am hoping to find something of a deal, put my RB300 from my Rega Planar 3 on and get someone to make me up a plinth based on some of the plans on the internet. I am hoping that this will give me something I can live with for a long time and possible upgrade with a better tonearm at a later date. I would hope, at the least, that the deck, RB300 - probably with a DL110 - and DIY plinth, give me something at the level of a properly set-up LP12/Valhalla/Ittock.

Thanks for any input,

Garth
 
TD124 vs 301/401 - Garth you are vey brave!! These threads can get very exciting...!

Anyway, I have been fortunate enough to hear all three of these players at some point in time, all in different systems with different tonearms and cartridges, rooms and contexts (so bear that in mind!! YMMV etc).

I thought the 301 wasn't as good as the 401 - it seemed to lack some of the authority of the 401 and sounded a little one-dimentional compared to the 401. Having now owned a 401 and heard the effect of different plinths and the surprising effect mains quality can have on this player, I now realise that my opinions of the two may all be down to the particular scenarios in which the players existed - eg. plinth/mains/arm/cart combos.

However I have lived with the 401 long enough to understand what it can and can't do. It has the best bass from vinyl I have heard from any turntable (however I haven't heard some of the very best/most expensive). However the upper end of the scale is handled less well. This can be tempered with carefull VTA adjustment without losing that great bottom end.

When I heard the TD124 I was very impressed by the open nature of its sound. It had a nice lightness of touch which reminded me of the Garrard. I feel it missed out on the last degree of the timing where the Garrards (both 301/401) really excel, but it tempered this with a more balanced presentation.

However I couldn't give up the 401's sheer authority and grunt for the TD124.

In addition the 401 has sounded its best with a light weight (but rigid) plinth with some kind of lossy suspension (I can't decide which is better of squash balls or sorbothane). High mass only served to slow it all down and smear the timing. Plus it has responded really well to the Hadcock unipivot I now have - much better than the modded Rega RB300 I used to use. The Aro certainly and possibly the Roksan NIMA would also be good places to start.

A past issue of HiFi+ (can't remember which one) had an article by Richard Foster about the replacement platter available for the TD124 which sounded very interesting - might be worth digging out. Something along the lines of non-ferrous materials etc.

One thing worth noting that condition is king obviously - a badly maintined version of any of these three is going to sound nothing like that mentioned above - they are quite sensitive to proper lubrication and adjustment.

Anyway, hope this helps!

Best regards,

Richard
 
I second Richard, the Garrard has superior bass authority than the TD124. But the TD124, when in good condition, has extraordinary detailed and fine treble, a region where the classical Garrards sound a bit rounded most times.

More important, I found it quite straightforward and easy to service a Garrard. I never failed to get into perfect of near perfect working condition.

The TD124, on the contrary, is very very picky. The motor bearings are very tight. When the motor oil dries up, the motor might get not up to speed. Also the belt often looses tension, because it gets too long or has to run on oily wheels, then your Thorens doesn't get up to speed, neither. Last but not least, the idler wheel is only half as thick as the the Garrard's and produces more rumble, too. Of the 8 TD124, that I had, only 2 or 3 were playing perfect, and it is still a mystery to me, what makes up a perfect TD124, besides the above-mentioned obvious points.

In my opinion, a perfect TD124 is absolutely lovely, as is a grease bearing Garrard 301. Then comes the standard Garrard 401, and on the last position the oil bearing 301.

Latest Thorens TD124 news from a friend of mine: the notorious TD124-rumble vanishes, if the tonearm is NOT mounted to the deck, but to the plinth, in a true Garrard style.

best regards from Munich/Germany,
Hartmut
 
Thanks guys. Great stuff. What I choose will probably come down to what I can find that is affordable, in good condition, and in North America. I think shipping one of these beasties from the UK will get too expensive. The differences in sound which you note between the Garrards and Thorens are consistent with what I have heard previously. I would be concerned if the Thorens actually sounded lightweight or lacking in authority but I gather this is only in comparison to the Garrards which seem to be masters of this domain. The maintenace issues are more of a concern.

I wonder if a good plinth for a Garrard may not neccesarily work as well with a Thorens. Getting ahead of myself, I had thought that I would try to get something made up that followed the principles of the Loricraft models but perhaps that would not be the best choice if I end up with a Thorens.

As I say, if I lived in the UK I would undoubtedly wait for a reasonably priced Garrard to come up and take to the folks in Swindon to have a go at it. Unfortunately, this is not reasonable from the far reaches of the colonies. Although they do call Victoria 'little England" so perhaps there is an expat Garrard employee or afficiando here. Here's to hoping.

Lastly, I hope we can all maintain our composure and not let things get too exciting! I think these old beauties are probably all a little different and much can come down to the condition and the way they are restored.

Cheers,
Garth
 
"Latest Thorens TD124 news from a friend of mine: the notorious TD124-rumble vanishes, if the tonearm is NOT mounted to the deck, but to the plinth, in a true Garrard style."

Would this be quite difficult or awkward given that there seems to be a depression in the Chassis into which the armboard fits. I must say it does seem to make sense to isolate the tonearm from the deck.

Best,
Garth
 
Garth said:
"Latest Thorens TD124 news from a friend of mine: the notorious TD124-rumble vanishes, if the tonearm is NOT mounted to the deck, but to the plinth, in a true Garrard style."

Would this be quite difficult or awkward given that there seems to be a depression in the Chassis into which the armboard fits. I must say it does seem to make sense to isolate the tonearm from the deck.
Click to expand...

Garth,

no problem, if you are using a 12 inch tonearm, like my friend does. You leave a 9 inch tonearm board on the chassis (just for looks) and have the 12-inch tonearm mounted at the right side of the chassis.

It not quite clear on the picture, though.

afm_tp062.jpg


best regards,
Hartmut
 
Close. That's Dirk Sommer, the editor-in-chief of image hifi, the German equivalent to HiFi+. The other guy is Tom Schmitz, a member of the Analogue Audio Association here. They had a small show recently in Munich, where Hartmut lives and where the photo was taken.

Any more details you want to know?
 
Markus Sauer said:
Any more details you want to know?
Click to expand...

How long have they been *together* ?




ps. Munich is great city and is also home of two of the best labels in the world.....ECM & Compost
 
It appears to be a tape editing post, i.e. a machine to splice bits of tape together as they used in those halcyon pre-digital days.
 
Is that an SME 3012 tonearm your friend uses? If so, how does it sound? I was always under the impression that even the RB300 would be superior to an SME 3012, which I would imagine can be picked up fairly reasonably. Any of the newer 12" models would be beyond my budget at this point I suspect.

I sent an e-mail off to "The Emporium" in the U.K. as they appear to have Garrards and Thorens on a fairly regular basis and the prices seem to be similar to e-bay. I am not finding anything much on this side of the pond yet so importing from the U.K. may be the only option. Sounds like shipping would be somewhere in the range of 100 pounds - ouch!

Best,
Garth

hifidaddy said:
Garth,

no problem, if you are using a 12 inch tonearm, like my friend does. You leave a 9 inch tonearm board on the chassis (just for looks) and have the 12-inch tonearm mounted at the right side of the chassis.

It not quite clear on the picture, though.

afm_tp062.jpg


best regards,
Hartmut
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top