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Ferrari to keep making combustion engines

gingermrkettle said:
And refining crude oil isn't being portrayed as the cause of mining disasters in DRC like battery production.
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Overall, it's the binary argument that is playing out that oil is all bad and EV's are all good that I take issue with. It's not the case.

Governments have jumped onto the EV Nirvana bandwagon that the likes of Musk have trotted out without first figuring out if it's actually feasible and if the Governments are capable of delivering on their end (apart from throwing around Taxpayers money).

I worked in renewables until 5 years ago and to a man the Engineers all whispered one word...Nuclear :)
 
andyoz said:
Overall, it's the binary argument that is playing out that oil is all bad and EV's are all good that I take issue with. It's not the case.
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However there is also an attempt to equate the issues of EV manufacturing with ICE use as if it is not clear cut which is environmentally better. And I am sorry, but it is not even close. Any whataboutery like has been amply demonstrated in this thread completely misses that point.
 
How can you know how clear cut it is until there have been a few generations of EV's that have come and gone. My bet is that cycle won't be slow. It's not just the manufacturing end, it's the total life.

Try and part-ex a Taycan ATM and see the dealers reaction...they're full of the bloody things. There were 1000 x Models 3 on AutoTrader last Xmas, now half that only because the prices have been savaged whilst ICE cars have held solid.
 
The EV model was only really getting traction in the ZIRP world's that now passed...
Most were buying them because the money saving from BIK and fuel, combined with low rate finance deals meant you were literally stupid NOT to buy one.
 
Up the thread there have been a few discussions about 'embedded carbon' (the carbon output of the processes used to manufacture items) of renewable energy. I work in this area, but rather than trot out my own opinions/views, I thought I'd share this report, ultimately from Nature Energy, on the embedded carbon footprint of renewable electricity generation (not electric cars): https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-wind-nuclear-amazingly-low-carbon-footprints/
 
With entry level EV cars being somewhat higher priced than ICE I wonder, post 2030, if this will prohibit sales, forcing some families back to having one car and people using bicycles and public transport? We've been waiting 20 years for battery prices to come down and its not happened. Teenagers passing their test and buying a cheap first car may be a thing of the past. Whilst there are environmental benefits in not building as many cars its the poorer people who are going to be hit hardest. Public transport being inadequate in many none urban areas and safe cycle lanes not widespread will this affect the economy in terms of getting people to a workplace?
 
andyoz said:
I worked in renewables until 5 years ago and to a man the Engineers all whispered one word...Nuclear :)
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Its free to download, "Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air", written by Sir David John Cameron MacKay FRS FInstP FICE was a British physicist, mathematician, and academic. He was the Regius Professor of Engineering[12] in the Department of Engineering at the University of Cambridge[13] and from 2009 to 2014 was Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK Department of Energy and Climate Change.

Sir David's book set out to debunk the fact free environmental nonsense that was and still is popular in the media and politics. Instead he addressed the way forward with maths and science. Its actually very readable and quite entertainingly written.

One thing I remember that backs up andyoz's experience was that if we want to halt climate change and we are not prepared to live a preindustrial revolution lifestyle then nuclear needs to be in the power generation mix.
 
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paul rich said:
With entry level EV cars being somewhat higher priced than ICE I wonder, post 2030, if this will prohibit sales, forcing some families back to having one car and people using bicycles and public transport? We've been waiting 20 years for battery prices to come down and its not happened. Teenagers passing their test and buying a cheap first car may be a thing of the past. Whilst there are environmental benefits in not building as many cars its the poorer people who are going to be hit hardest. Public transport being inadequate in many none urban areas and safe cycle lanes not widespread will this affect the economy in terms of getting people to a workplace?
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China has invested in transport infrastructure. As have several other countries. They will have a clear advantage over those which have not.
 
dadgad said:
U I thought I'd share this report, ultimately from Nature Energy, on the embedded carbon footprint of renewable electricity generation (not electric cars): https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-wind-nuclear-amazingly-low-carbon-footprints/
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from the report:

"The study finds each kilowatt hour of electricity generated over the lifetime of a nuclear plant has an emissions footprint of 4 grammes of CO2 equivalent (gCO2e/kWh). The footprint of solar comes in at 6gCO2e/kWh and wind is also 4gCO2e/kWh.

In contrast, coal CCS (109g), gas CCS (78g), hydro (97g) and bioenergy (98g) have relatively high emissions, compared to a global average target for a 2C world of 15gCO2e/kWh in 2050". Note: CCS is carbon capture.
 
NeilR said:
One for the EV doubters: EV range set to double thanks to new battery technology

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/electric-car-battery-range-record-b2343579.html
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Interesting, hopefully they will be able to retrofit to all the cars out there now or there is going to be a lot of cheap used cars for sale very soon if this takes over. In fact it will happen anyway, youre unlikely to replace the batttery for at least 10 years it seems and it costs a fortune. With ebikes, those 250w battery bikes from 10 years ago are worth absolutley nothing now you can get 750 watt batteries on your ebikes.

The weight claim is also interesting.
 
richardg said:
Interesting, hopefully they will be able to retrofit to all the cars out there now or there is going to be a lot of cheap used cars for sale very soon if this takes over. In fact it will happen anyway, youre unlikely to replace the batttery for at least 10 years it seems and it costs a fortune. With ebikes, those 250w battery bikes from 10 years ago are worth absolutley nothing now you can get 750 watt batteries on your ebikes.

The weight claim is also interesting.
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The cars with the lower range are the usual early adopter blues. How many people still use the early model digital cameras? None. So the lower range cars will be adopted by those people who don't make long trips and if they do they are prepared to charge en route.
 
stevec67 said:
The cars with the lower range are the usual early adopter blues. How many people still use the early model digital cameras? None. So the lower range cars will be adopted by those people who don't make long trips and if they do they are prepared to charge en route.
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Quite - I was eyeing a second hand Nissan leaf as a runabout. $10k ish, and range of around 70 miles - plenty for 95% of our trips.
 
andyoz said:
...says Chinese start up...

Oh, it's coming I'm sure but unfortunately politicians are believing every claim that suits their agenda and rolling out policies based on it.
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I thought the same as you, cheques in the post.....

On Harry's Garage he reviewed (this means used every day for a few weeks, as opposed to read the spec sheet and created a fact light video) a BMW iX xD50M, BMW claim a real world 300 mile range on one charge for this £115k 2600kg SUV. Harry confirmed the 300 mile claim was true. But a 7kW home charger takes 14 hours to put that much charge into it.
 
sean99 said:
Quite - I was eyeing a second hand Nissan leaf as a runabout. $10k ish, and range of around 70 miles - plenty for 95% of our trips.
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This type of EV would suit me down to the ground for my short journeys - I don't need a car to be able to span the south of the country presently. The Leaf looks really attractive as long as the batteries are t on their last legs of course.
 
paul rich said:
I thought the same as you, cheques in the post.....

On Harry's Garage he reviewed (this means used every day for a few weeks, as opposed to read the spec sheet and created a fact light video) a BMW iX xD50M, BMW claim a real world 300 mile range on one charge for this £115k 2600kg SUV. Harry confirmed the 300 mile claim was true. But a 7kW home charger takes 14 hours to put that much charge into it.
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That's good enough. Most cars are parked about 14 hours. In addition they don't generally start from zero or need the full 300 miles every day.
 
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