Mike Reed
pfm Member
When humidity is that high, I feel too uncomfortable to fire them up the system anyway. Is humidity ever THAT high in a normal ventilated and c/heated living room ?
ESLs: How d'you tell if they're 100%?
- Thread starter Mike Reed
- Start date
When humidity is that high, I feel too uncomfortable to fire them up the system anyway. Is humidity ever THAT high in a normal ventilated and c/heated living room ?
DimitryZ
pfm Member
Depends where you live and wether you have air conditioning. Certainly when it rains, outside humidity is 100%, and if your windows are open...
Shuggie
Trade: Ammonite Audio
I can come over with my NTi sound analyser if you wish - its standard FFT resolution is more than enough for such a test; also it needs no PC nor USB!
Yeah, that'll do it, with a white noise source it'll tell you all you need to know
Humidity greater than 60%? Quads were made, and most are used, in the UK. Humidity is almost never lower than 60% indoors in the UK. Seriously. If it's frosty outside, sure, but in that case the heating would be on and normal domestic activities will have RH around 70%.
I currently have 19°C, 69% RH, sunny, wind 13mph, visibility 19 miles. It's a lovely evening, 1845 UK time. Humidity under 60? Not here.
martin clark
pinko bodger
A bit lower than that Steve actually, but a point well made
The other aspect is that relative humidity, , well - relative, and the actual water content of the air varies with temperature quite dramatically.
Its relative to the level that air at hat temperature can hold (sometimes called 'mixing ratio' without condensing out (saturation point, 100% RH). I can bore for Britain on the Psychrometric curve, but the plain truth is, warmer air can carry dis-proportionally -more water vapour. Thus warmer climates like where Dmitri lives or, say, Kuala Lumpur (30degC+ / 90% RH +), that kills speakers - the total amount of water in the air is very, very different for comparable RH values.
Classic UK home at say 20degC/60%RH = 0.01g /g of dry air; at say 27degC / 60%Rh there's a full 50% more water in the air. In fact to carry that much water in the air at 20degC is essentially not possible/it is condensing out (raining indoors). If that upper level is, say, a minimum , or somewhere on the threshold of from-experience limit of reliability at age, owing to effect on leakage current through to breakdown of the air as a dialectric - it's not that bad for users in the UK...
tl;dr You have to know both air temp (dry ie standard thermometer) and %RH figures to compare.
ETa;
figs from home experience, Bath UK where I tend to leave a sash window cracked open year round, old stone building remains adequately warm to my taste 19-21degC yr round(ie that's my thermostat set-point in the heating season) - humidity ranges 45-65%., and generally down toward the lower limit. Right now its 22C/52% RH in the living room. I've seen 70-80% , generally around this time of year -and its obvious, dead-air, thunderstormy weather. At that point I've usually powered the esls down becasue I don't want to sit still and listen then anyway. (and no fizzing here, even listening up close in paranoid mode, up to 78-80% @ c 26degC so far)
And cheap digital hygrometers are easy to find , and useful. I wonder if the paranoids answer is a humidistat - a mains switch set to turn of your esls at the wall when the rooms exceeds your own chosen setpoint. hey, they'll play on for 10-15mins afterwards anyway, it wouldn't be a ssudden loss of musical enjoyment - about enough to let the side play out and call it a night
The other aspect is that relative humidity, , well - relative, and the actual water content of the air varies with temperature quite dramatically.
Its relative to the level that air at hat temperature can hold (sometimes called 'mixing ratio' without condensing out (saturation point, 100% RH). I can bore for Britain on the Psychrometric curve, but the plain truth is, warmer air can carry dis-proportionally -more water vapour. Thus warmer climates like where Dmitri lives or, say, Kuala Lumpur (30degC+ / 90% RH +), that kills speakers - the total amount of water in the air is very, very different for comparable RH values.
Classic UK home at say 20degC/60%RH = 0.01g /g of dry air; at say 27degC / 60%Rh there's a full 50% more water in the air. In fact to carry that much water in the air at 20degC is essentially not possible/it is condensing out (raining indoors). If that upper level is, say, a minimum , or somewhere on the threshold of from-experience limit of reliability at age, owing to effect on leakage current through to breakdown of the air as a dialectric - it's not that bad for users in the UK...
tl;dr You have to know both air temp (dry ie standard thermometer) and %RH figures to compare.
ETa;
figs from home experience, Bath UK where I tend to leave a sash window cracked open year round, old stone building remains adequately warm to my taste 19-21degC yr round(ie that's my thermostat set-point in the heating season) - humidity ranges 45-65%., and generally down toward the lower limit. Right now its 22C/52% RH in the living room. I've seen 70-80% , generally around this time of year -and its obvious, dead-air, thunderstormy weather. At that point I've usually powered the esls down becasue I don't want to sit still and listen then anyway. (and no fizzing here, even listening up close in paranoid mode, up to 78-80% @ c 26degC so far)
And cheap digital hygrometers are easy to find , and useful. I wonder if the paranoids answer is a humidistat - a mains switch set to turn of your esls at the wall when the rooms exceeds your own chosen setpoint. hey, they'll play on for 10-15mins afterwards anyway, it wouldn't be a ssudden loss of musical enjoyment - about enough to let the side play out and call it a night
martin clark
pinko bodger
-- depending on breeze, and a few other things - it can actually take a surprising amount of time for inside to even approach that.
Door/window wide open with only screens in place in a mid-west US thunderstorm,(or a downpour on N Borneo, the example I lived with for a while after uni) - oh yeah, all bets are off
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Thanks for that, Hugo. That would be very useful if I continue to be underwhelmed by the 2905s' presentation and performance. At the mo', it may be a combination of other factors (ears, mood, wine etc.), as there's no obvious degradation symptoms. As a tyro with ESLs, I had no idea what to listen for apropos panel prob's until this thread and nothing mentioned upthread has occurred to date, so maybe the speakers are more robust than I feared after the blown fuse.
I live in Yorkshire. What is this 26°C of which you speak?
martin clark
pinko bodger
Ah; good point.
As a process value - Hull will sublimate above about 25degC, re-condense at least 200miles further NE with any luck. Please calibrate accordingly.
I'm turning the heating up. We can but hope.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
Perhaps looking at the Quad manual is in order:
CARE AND MAINTENANCE The grille cloth may be cleaned with a soft brush or a hand held vacuum cleaner. They are protected against the ingress of dust etc. Periodic servicing at two year intervals is recommended to keep your speakers in pristine condition. Great care has gone into the selection of materials to ensure long term stability under a widerange of temperatures and humidity. In countries where the relative humidity regularly exceeds 90% it is recommended that the listening room be air conditioned for optimum performance.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
That's ludicrous Dimitry. No other speaker I know needs ANY 'servicing', and if ESLs were that delicate, how have all the iterations been so popular? Furthermore, 'servicing', whatever that means, is hardly a DIY job for the average punter.
I've always covered mine, when not in use, with sheets. I know the cloth protects, but at least I don't need to vacuum them. It also helps to safeguard against damage. Ah ! Maybe that's what they mean by 'servicing'.
At least, the mention of 90 degrees rel. humidity is credible.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
I quoted from the Quad 989 manual. I think servicing means "at the dealer." And almost all countries have regular 90% humidity - it's called rain.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Both do read post 26 again.
%RH is not the only figure of merit -the temperature at which it happens matters, very much.
%RH is not the only figure of merit -the temperature at which it happens matters, very much.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
I run an outdoor weather station on a pole above my house and when it rains, it's always close to 99%...
It's less indoors, where we have air conditioning or air drying.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Yes, and no surprise there.
My observations missed, I sense; nevermind.
My observations missed, I sense; nevermind.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
Understood, but the Quad manual didn't couple RH with a temperature threshold.
My memory is that Quads made some rushing noises on humid days in the summer, with 60+% indoor RH and not particularly high indoor temps - before we installed the mini-splits.
mandryka
pfm Member
NB it doesn’t say that periodic servicing is necessary in the ESL 63 manual, in fact it says that regular maintenance is not necessary.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/407328/Quad-Esl-63.html?page=6#manual
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I'd forgotten that; really must get a roof sometime. Sometimes I'm limited to playing that well-known Handel piece and Wet Wet Wet is beneath my dignity..
I did, Martin, but for me it needs a translation, I'm afraid. I'm still struggling on different types of cloud.
I thought that 'relative humidity' meant how wet my relatives were.