Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

[Andrew C!]

I also think there is a useful distinction to be made about damage to things and physical violence directed at people. The latter bothers me, the former, not so much.

Unless it’s your property.

That is not what I'm saying but hey, as everyone seems to think that I'm obviously a white supremacist and an apologist for slavery, f**kin' pile on.

I got the context of what you were saying - where do you draw the line?

 

[Seanm]

~500 years ago.


~150 years ago.


I've no idea, it was different times. We have a statue to Thatcher, the worst PM in living memory but it received support.

Bottom line is, we have a history and it is what it is. You can't erase it and we shouldn't try to erase it. It's true we don't need statues to these folks but destroying them is not on. Put them in a museum.

Memorials =/= history. Pull em down.

 

[Seanm]

Unless it’s your property.



I got the context of what you were saying - where do you draw the line?

Where do you think it might lead, realistically? And how would we get there? I mean, what are the steps?

 

[Brian]

It does appear a number of people support the notion of taking things into your own hands.

Interesting times ahead if this is now a widespread attitude.

 

[Andrew C!]

Where do you think it might lead, realistically? And how would we get there? I mean, what are the steps?

What bit? The dealing with cultural racism? The acceptance that you can deface and damage another’s property to make a point? Both have been around for generations. Progress has been made, but nowhere near enough. I saw it 1st hand whilst at upper school, and ended up in A&E twice after defending my best friend from stupid, ignorant peers - just because he was black.

 

[droodzilla]

Unless it’s your property.



I got the context of what you were saying - where do you draw the line?

As long as the hordes of hypothetical rioters don't touch my Harbeths, I'm cool. That's my red line.

 

[PaulMB]

But this is to not only miss the point, it runs contrary to the point. The statue has been a bone of contention for decades. There has already been a calm official decision to do as you suggest, highlighted; a decision to address it, either by taking it down or by adding a new plaque stating the true nature of his business interests. That decision has been stonewalled for years, possibly also decades.

So this action is not, as is being argued, the mob objecting to something it doesn't like, it is the people taking the matter into their own hands only after their concerns have been ignored and stonewalled for many, many years.

It should serve as an object lesson to those doing the stonewalling, and the media shouldn't let them get away with spinning it as mob rule, as you have inadvertently done here.

I did not know all that. Thanks. Perhaps a very visible plaque, explaining the the whole history of the statue and the modern controversy would be educationally good for present and future generations.

 

[TheDecameron]

Francis Drake also had very little to do with the eventual defeat of the Armada, he buggered off trying to capture a Galleon for booty in the middle of the fight.

He was a pirate. Tudor England was isolated within Europe, forced to trade with the Ottomans and provide them with assistance against Europe. Desperate for cash, Drake plundered Spanish ships for the Crown. Spanish parents at the time would tell their children if they weren’t good “Draque” would come for them. Funny how the wheel of history turns- England returning to its Tudor backwater past, hard up, keen to undermine Europe and seeking out dodgy deals with foreign tyrants with spray-on tan.

 

[Joe Hutch]

Memorials =/= history. Pull em down.

I wonder if anyone complaining about the statue of Colston being pulled down had any objection to the removal of multiple statues of Marx, Lenin and Stalin from ex-Soviet bloc countries in Eastern Europe.

 

[TheDecameron]

As long as the hordes of hypothetical rioters don't touch my Harbeths, I'm cool. That's my red line.

We’re safe. If they came in to loot the living rooms of pfm members they’d probably think WTF? . First sight of a Prog LP and they’d run out screaming in the street.

 

[TheDecameron]

I wonder if anyone complaining about the statue of Colston being pulled down had any objection to the removal of multiple statues of Marx, Lenin and Stalin from ex-Soviet bloc countries in Eastern Europe.

Did you steal out under cover of dark and correct any discarded placards harbouring grocer’s apostrophes?

 

[eternumviti]

Apostrophe's.

 

[stevec67]

Did you steal out under cover of dark and correct any discarded placards harbouring grocer’s apostrophes?

Come along now. How many grocers?

 

[caine]

We’re safe. If they came in to loot the living rooms of pfm members they’d probably think WTF? . First sight of a Prog LP and they’d run out screaming in the street.

I thought it would be the bloke sat on his listening chair with his shit stained underwear on his head.

 

[peter bj]

None of the people interviewed at the Cecil Rhodes statue had any idea who he actually was just that he " did bad things to black people " we had herd immunity now we have herd following !
Another said he disrespected her ancestors but she was clearly not African .
People have been looking at some of these statues for years without problem so why is it suddenly so important

 

[TheDecameron]

Apostrophe's.

Come along now. How many grocers?

Well, I’ve tried before to slip in provocations or a trail of crumbs but Im afraid he’s wise to it. We need a better mousetrap.

 

[ff1d1l]

Unless it’s your property.

My property isn't in a frequented public area lionising a mass murderer and people trafficker.
Maybe if it was I would think people had a point damaging it?

 

[ff1d1l]

None of the people interviewed at the Cecil Rhodes statue had any idea who he actually was just that he " did bad things to black people " we had herd immunity now we have herd following !
Another said he disrespected her ancestors but she was clearly not African .
People have been looking at some of these statues for years without problem so why is it suddenly so important

Because it only wasn't a problem to some people.

 

[Tony L]

Apostrophe's.

Apo’strophe’s.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

[reposted to reword]

My priority is staying safe. The idea that direct action of any kind is legitimate in certain circumstances opens the door for any group with any agenda to feel OK to go ahead and break this or burn that or some other such wheeze and that leads us to a world in which I feel even less safe in as a person with one or more characteristic that is going to put me in some group or other's firing line: white, middle class, fairly affluent, middle-aged, wishy-washy liberal centrist (and not a fan of Naim ) just wanting to get to the end of his life as well as he can and to keep his partner safe.

So for those of you who are comfortable with direct action because you're on 'their' side, good for you. But, be under no illusion, one day, you won't be on the side of the majority and then you'll perhaps see why the events over the weekend trouble us / me.

Good evening all!

This is my "Stream of consciousness"; a response to the above. Please bear with me; I'm on day six of a seven day run driving buses in Greater London.

Excuses done; right! Riots were mentioned above. Has anyone been anywhere near a riot taking place; or one about to take place?

I'm not going to mince my words. I have. It is ****ing scary. Croydon; 2011. I was working a late shift driving a Route 64 bus. I got to West Croydon Station (heading towards New Addington) and noticed a Police Van with a very tense looking crew down a side road opposite.

I had a strange feeling. I looked ahead of me and saw a MASSIVE crowd of people moving very slowly towards where I was.

What does one do when in charge of lives and 11,880Kg of Scania/East Lanc's finest? Sit there like a "Rabbit in the Headlights" and allow passengers too scared to touch in to board.

A Radio Call came from a normally unflappable Route Controller:

"All Croydon Mobiles in the Croydon area get. Out. Of. Central. Croydon. Now. You pick up any remaining passengers and you get out now!"

Now, that Scania DSC9 Engine can propel said 'Omnidekka at quite a pace when required. I did precisely that with the cab window open; the unmistakable acrid smell of burning buildings flowed in as I drove away. East Croydon Station was as close as buses could get as New Addington and Central Croydon was closed off.

When I'd completed my duty, I was on the way back to the Depot, I'd changed buses; Duty split between 64 and 130. I had one of Guildford's finest. A Transbus Pointer Dart. I was keen to maintain a low profile; having heard Radio Calls referring to a bus being set alight...

I was almost back at Croydon Depot when I turned around to see a couple of lads in a Peugeot 206. The big boxes with Samsung writ large started to twitch. There were in fact five people in that car. And they'd looted some shops at a nearby Retail Park.

I smiled and drove away as fast as Darlington's finest Cummins ISBe would allow me; the distinctive throaty growl competing with the ever closer police sirens and shop alarms for attention.

Now, I have experienced racism. It is mentioned elsewhere on this forum. A piece of paper depicting two Stick Figures; one of which was 'Necklaced' was placed on my then Workplace Locker.

Two weeks later, I spent several weeks in East Grinstead with 7% burns. I was 16 at the time.

That experience ****ed things up for many years. I hated people, had now self confidence and experienced anxiety and depression for some years afterwards.

I've been incredibly fortunate to have met some people who helped me through all of that; they listened and did not judge. It was a long road. But I made it, much like a Leyland Worldmaster; O.680 Engine pulling from tickover up a steep and rough road...

An interesting journey. Now, racism and racist behaviour hasn't gone away. It is an incidious undercurrent; it manifests itself in an a variety of ways.

People become experts in Geography:

"Why don't you go back home where you belong?"

My response usually catches these people out. As soon as I open my mouth. Could this be because to these people, I don't sound like I "Should"?

So, a group of people who campaigned for the removal of a Statue depicting a known Slave Trader for years took matters into their own hands. Good. May many more follow. This is what happens when people feel like they do not have a voice.

Let's not forget we have a PM who has used racist language to describe BAME people; who appears to deny that racism is a problem in the UK promise that justice will be done.

If it wasn't so ****ing sad, it would be funny.