Hopefully some one can answer me in a polite way as to why I can have a dedicated hi-fi radial but not dedicate a ring circuit for hifi. Dedicated in that only hifi is installed of course. Do regulations preclude this. I only request to gain knowledge not to cause heart attacks.
Don't let anyone tell you mains supply doesn't matter
- Thread starter kjb
- Start date
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
If your HiFi is in one room then a ring main is pointless. The whole reason for a ring instead of radials is to save the cost of wiring a house/flat. Less copper wire and less labour installing it.
Cheers,
DV
You can have a ring main in your house if you want but it's only 'HiFi dedicated' if you only plug audio equipment into it.
It is just a ring main.
I suppose if you bother to get a copy of the electrical regulations you can read up on cable routes and choose an appropriate route. I'm not bothered if someone wants to do there own electrical work, yes you could do it yourself but good luck getting someone to sign it off after, especially if you didn't take advice first.
My issue Mike is I don't like people offering advice without an understanding of what they are saying. Your suggestion to do it the way you had yours done makes no sense and is just wrong.
I have no issue providing a radial circuit to be used exclusively for hifi, I do have an issue with terminating from the cable to the flex with terminal block mounted on or in the wall as per your suggestions. This was also pointed out by someone more eloquent than I in a previous post.
Perhaps Mike you could start a new post with your thoughts on what you are trying to achieve with your hifi install and why, along with why you think this has been successful.
I am not patronising you, I suggest you be more specific in your posts. If you believe as you say that someone qualified should be called in then actually say that in the post.
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
I do indeed understand what I'm saying but based upon experience and not knowing the reg's back to front; that, as I reiterate, is an electrician's job, as you agree. but what I don't understand is why you keep referring to my (and others') installation(s) as wrong and senseless, especially when it's proved the test of time.
Fine; you have an issue with this, but why? Is there something dangerous (potentially or not) in this if the MCB covers the mains lead capabilities? As an electrician (presumably), you surely must be able to advise on this. I find it hard to believe that the practising electrician I mentioned would imperil his family. I've asked this before of you, but received no specific answer(s). Regardless, it's an option rather than a suggestion because I believe it reduces movable connections and thereby impedance. It seems that (as in my case), hard wiring is your bete noir so please state your reasons. Do reg's proscribe this? After all, cookers, showers etc. are hard-wired to radials !
Why, Ian? I've already said that my installation, installed for Naim kit, is now simply part of the furniture so to speak so I'm not attempting to achieve anything; I have little interest in it now but would still recommend ways of getting expensive hifi off the domestic ring; maybe not my specific installation as there are options to suit different situations but the sonic benefits of so doing, whilst possibly being system dependent to a degree, are beyond doubt as far as I and many others, fishies included, are concerned.
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MUTTY1
Waste of bandwidth
I’ve rewired two of our houses so putting a spur in for my music was just easy. I’ve never compared with the mains ring it would have been attached to normally. It just seemed sensible to not put it on the same path as a fridge. I bought a couple of expensive mains leads off Avondale when Les built my 260z kit for free. I sort of felt obliged. But I noticed that even ‘down to earth’ Rega is selling mains cable at prices that are nearly half the price of some of their standalone components.
What to make of this? 0
What to make of this? 0
Mike Reed
pfm Member
A bit pointless if it was a spur; I think you mean a radial circuit, which is an entirely different kettle of fish. Surprised by this if you're an electrician, t.b.h.
A bit patronising Mike ?
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Possibly, Ian, but nonetheless puzzled by what he meant. Maybe inaccurate terminology (which would be surprising) or that it WAS a spur.
Still awaiting your reply to my question, which I genuinely need, as I'm not an electrician and want to know if my installation no longer complies. Why do you not answer this simple question of whether hard-wiring is kosher or not after making such a song and dance about it?
Electricians quite often use "spur" or more commonly "dedicated spur" as shorthand for "radial circuit " even knowing the difference. Some of us will pick up on it, but it matters not when they know what it means in practice. Mechanical engineer s do the same when they refer to nuts and boots and in fact a set screw is in use. Yes, they know the difference. They also know when it matters and when it doesn't.
You can have a dedicated ring if you want. However as pointed out elsewhere a ring is only advantageous if you are going round an entire room or floor and want to minimise the cable runs to multiple outlets. It's pointless for a single point outlet because you use double the length of cable.
MUTTY1
Waste of bandwidth
I’m not an electrician but at one time you were allowed to rewire your house. I spent some time familiarising myself with the IEE regs and twenty-two years later we still haven’t burnt down. If electric, your cooker will also be on a spur though could be called a radial circuit. As most houses are now on ring circuits is less confusing to use the term spur?
fegs
pfm Member
It hopefully won't burn down!
you've probably made a better job than many so called electricians would
It's not rocket science, it's a building installation. Anyone prepared to read the regs and follow them can do it, the thing is that people tend to imagine that they know better and start cutting corners. "I won't drill the joists to thread the cable, that's a bore. So I'll lift a couple of boards and notch the joints for the cable, it be reet" and so on.
I've built ring mains in the past, when it was allowed. It could hardly be more straightforward. It still is of course, the difficulty is then getting someone to sign it off and connect it to a consumer unit, because that's the bit that you are no longer allowed to do. I can legally take a spur off an existing ring anytime I like.
fegs
pfm Member
Absolutely spot on, like you say the "sign off" would be the difficult bit
Mike Reed
pfm Member
My apologies, Mutty, but you've answered my question. I've also rewired and installed hifi radial circuits myself but, like you, that was the best part of a long time ago.
As Ali T says, a spur is, and always has been (see dictionary definition), a circuit emanating from an existing one (so cannot be 'dedicated' in the electrical sense). A radial circuit (radial= like spokes in a wheel, radius etcetera), is a circuit which emanates from a hub (i.e., the consumer unit/fuse box). The terminology is sound, established and needn't be changed.
.Cooker and electrically heated shower circuits are, a.f.a.I.k, always radials and usually carry greater current capacity so are 6mm2 or 10mm2 t.& e.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Indeed, but possibly a good thing, as electrical supply safety and the ancillaries have changed a great deal in 40 to 50 years (I grew up with round pin plugs etc.) Think there's a limit on the number of spurs allowed now, but not sure (not that this would be likely).
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
My understanding is that the impedance of a ring main is lower than that for a radial circuit, on account of them electrons having a choice as to which way they go round, innit. Whether you think this matters is another matter, but if I were going to get a dedicated install, I'd go for a ring. As is frequently mentioned on cable threads T&E costs buttons, so the length of cable is pretty trivial.