Does connecting a streamer to Ethernet make much difference compared to wifi?

[Hcanning]

I realise you are being self-deprecating but it is not so much about biases and beliefs, more that what we think of as "hearing" is not just about sound waves but rather how our brain interprets them. Thus it is quite possible for fancy cables to sound better, or for thick cables to deliver more bass, but not because the sound waves are different, more that our brain might customise what we hear according to what our eyes see. Sometimes even what we know does not make a difference, does make a difference, that disappears in a blind test.

Very much so. If someone has just spent £500 on some widget that is touted to make your music sound better, of course their brain is going to think it sounds better. It's just cost them 500 quid! This is very much a subconscious thing but I expect it's extremely common. The lines are blurred by the fact that so much of it is emotive - why shouldn't that highly expensive mains cable or network switch improve things if those better speakers also improve things?

Personally, I have and always will stand by the fact that speakers (obviously) make a big difference to sound, amplifiers make a small but often noticeable difference, analogue sources sometimes make a minute difference, and most other things don't. So those items are where I choose to spend the bulk of my money.

 

[Phyztech]

Personally, I have and always will stand by

The question is only why to be so rigid

 

[Fourlegs]

Personally, I have and always will stand by the fact that speakers (obviously) make a big difference to sound, amplifiers make a small but often noticeable difference, analogue sources sometimes make a minute difference, and most other things don't.

That would seem to put you firmly in the biased camp of having made up your mind not to hear any differences with some items without needing to get involved in the process of actually assessing what is being heard.

Of recent I have relayed how I have been surprised by how much difference can be made to sound quality by only changing the server and player software on a streamer. It seems silly to deny these gains in sound quality if they are there for the taking especially as some of them are free.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

You might be tight

Well done for resurrecting a thread that should be left to drop down the pages and die.

At least you've hit your 50 posts, you can start selling now.

 

[stecko]

Well done for resurrecting a thread that should be left to drop down the pages and die.

At least you've hit your 50 posts, you can start selling now.

Of course, I'm here since 2011 ( 5 years longer than you )and learned a lot from members. I didn't post threads, just follow interesting me threads, but I've noticed I need min 50 posts to sale something here, weird...

 

[vacuum_tubes]

Stop replying, Oh FFS I've done it myself now.

We're now doomed to be stuck in some twilight zone episode of audiophile switches.

 

[simon g]

That would seem to put you firmly in the biased camp of having made up your mind not to hear any differences with some items without needing to get involved in the process of actually assessing what is being heard.

Of recent I have relayed how I have been surprised by how much difference can be made to sound quality by only changing the server and player software on a streamer. It seems silly to deny these gains in sound quality if they are there for the taking especially as some of them are free.

I've seen a few of your posts stating that, particularly as regards Roon. I've often commented that I could not hear a difference. Well, it appears I was mistaken. Prodded by this thread I compared my current album being played over Roon (Return to Forever; 'Returns') from Qobuz to the exact same Qobuz material but using the Mind module in my 390 controlled by the Moon app. Really quite a marked improvement using tne Moon; more relaxed but equally detailed, better instrument placement and separation. I have been tweaking my network of late, so maybe that's enabled my system better to show the difference? It's very interesting though; I shall do some more comparisons. I can change from Roon to Moon almost instantly, which makes comparisons easier.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

I've seen a few of your posts stating that, particularly as regards Roon. I've often commented that I could not hear a difference. Well, it appears I was mistaken. Prodded by this thread I compared my current album being played over Roon (Return to Forever; 'Returns') from Qobuz to the exact same Qobuz material but using the Mind module in my 390 controlled by the Moon app. Really quite a marked improvement using tne Moon;

I wouldn't use Roon as a comparison, I'm still convinced that RAAT does some 'under the bonnet DSP' and alters the 'sound'

 

[sq225917]

So Rob Watts admits that his dacs are prone to rf ingress and negative effects, and implies other might be too. I'll stick with my cheap Chinese shit that isn't affected by such things.

I'd be interested to see Amir or pkane do some measurements with a switch to see if there's any audible differences, or even measurable ones. Until then I'll treat all unproven claims as just that, claims.

 

[booja30]

… I'll stick with my cheap Chinese shit that isn't affected by such things.

I’m sorry but how am I supposed to take anything seriously if I can carry it in without help and it doesn’t need multiple external power supplies and external clocks with their own external power supplies. Oh, and it doesn’t need to be on a massive, expensive isolation platform to work properly? Shirley you can’t be serious.

 

[Phyztech]

So Rob Watts admits that his dacs are prone to rf ingress and negative effects, and implies other might be too. I'll stick with my cheap Chinese shit that isn't affected by such things.

I'd be interested to see Amir or pkane do some measurements with a switch to see if there's any audible differences, or even measurable ones. Until then I'll treat all unproven claims as just that, claims.

And what’s the point to listen to shit? Because Amir told that it’s all the same? Chord hugo2/2go is definitely sensitive to the network tweaks whatever Rob is thinking about it)

 

[x21]

It isolates the streamer from the router.

The router is already galvanically isolated inside with transformers.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

The router is already galvanically isolated inside with transformers.

Apparently it's UHF noise that re/de modulates the DAC DSP chips

nasty stuff.

 

[x21]

Apparently it's UHF noise that re/de modulates the DAC DSP chips

nasty stuff.

If that's the case wifi would likely be significantly worse.

 

[Metfan]

If that's the case wifi would likely be significantly worse.

I’ve turned off Wi-Fi and also unused ports on modem and switch because it was just that significantly worse In my system. Why I don’t know but….

 

[TheFlash]

Has anyone actually blind tested this stuff? Yeah, I know blind tests are not without issues but still.

I'd like to blind test stuff more, on account that I too have one of the stupid human brains full of biases and beliefs.

By "stuff", do you mean wired vs wifi?

 

[TheFlash]

This hobby is an fascinating mix of technology and illusion.

I am often curious about the relative contribution of the two but not really curious enough to set up the tests properly. I still prefer to prioritise music listening time. For people who don't share this curiosity I think blind tests are probably not of great value. For them I suspect it's the final illusion that matters most.

But as you write the illusion element is a lot to do with biases, beliefs and previous experience. Those are not generally transferrable to other people. However I do observe discussions that give me the impression that some think it's all about technology and that a given personal illusion is what others will experience too.

That's an intriguing opening assertion. I like it. By illusion, do you mean the listened experience? Is this an illusion which will last? Or is it an illusion in the oft-used derogatory sense of fooling oneself? One could of course argue that the whole purpose of hifi is to use a couple of fat sticks with wobbly bits inside them to create a realistic illusion of a soundstage...

 

[TheFlash]

So Rob Watts admits that his dacs are prone to rf ingress and negative effects, and implies other might be too. I'll stick with my cheap Chinese shit that isn't affected by such things.

I'd be interested to see Amir or pkane do some measurements with a switch to see if there's any audible differences, or even measurable ones. Until then I'll treat all unproven claims as just that, claims.

Sorry but why are we back on the subject of switches? I think you forgot to quote the post to which you are responding.

 

[TheFlash]

The router is already galvanically isolated inside with transformers.

Yes, the router is. But the router is not the streamer and there are (usually) wires between them.

 

[sq225917]

And what’s the point to listen to shit? Because Amir told that it’s all the same? Chord hugo2/2go is definitely sensitive to the network tweaks whatever Rob is thinking about it)

I have no idea what you listen to so I couldn't possibly comment.