Dedicated Mains Spur or don't bother ?
- Thread starter PhilCTTE
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
Absolutely; even 4mm2 is over the top. Bell wire is the acme of conductivity; failing that, telephone cable would suffice.
I always feel uneasy (like a lamb in front of a tiger) when I disagree with Martin Clark, but.....
I think a single spur can make your system sound better.
In fact, I think that you can even gain more performance by using two or more spurs (but the law of diminishing returns cuts in pretty hard beyond the first separate spur)
(They should really be referred to as radial circuits, but that's neither here nor there).
It's all very system and site specific though; If your existing ring main is really poorly done and noisy due to all sorts of crappy stuff plugged into it then you would likely hear an improvement with a cleaner supply (which a radial circuit can give). At home my two daughters are continuously washing and blow drying their hair - and I mean continuously. Hair dryers in particular are hugely pollutive of the mains waveform. Another thing with my system in particular - the main source components are a Linn Karik/Numerik, both of which contain a switch-mode power supply, and they feck up the sound of my Naim amps if I plug them into the same power feed.
Just my 2 pence
Mr Tibbs
I think a single spur can make your system sound better.
In fact, I think that you can even gain more performance by using two or more spurs (but the law of diminishing returns cuts in pretty hard beyond the first separate spur)
(They should really be referred to as radial circuits, but that's neither here nor there).
It's all very system and site specific though; If your existing ring main is really poorly done and noisy due to all sorts of crappy stuff plugged into it then you would likely hear an improvement with a cleaner supply (which a radial circuit can give). At home my two daughters are continuously washing and blow drying their hair - and I mean continuously. Hair dryers in particular are hugely pollutive of the mains waveform. Another thing with my system in particular - the main source components are a Linn Karik/Numerik, both of which contain a switch-mode power supply, and they feck up the sound of my Naim amps if I plug them into the same power feed.
Just my 2 pence
Mr Tibbs
Mike Reed
pfm Member
But you cannot change the breaker amp rating without first increasing the CSA of the cable. Besides that, you USA guys have only got a piddly 120 volts of mains grunt, which means you're beat before you start ;-)
Mr Tibbs
dave
Plywood King
Ahhh...but I've got a work-around. Nat'l Code allows for 12 or 14 gauge wire to be connected to a 15A circuit. Done both-compared-found no difference in sound. I've also changed a breaker from 30A to 50A while using 8 gauge wire and was floored with the difference in sound. Lowering source impedance with a higher rated breaker seems to be the key here.
Yeah, I can't argue with the wimpy 120V comment...I always thought about lashing up a 220V line and converting the gear for use as its makers intended;-) One day maybe.
EDITED: bit of a disclaimer - the 30 and 50A experiments described above were not left in place long-term as they don't meet code. Any improvements they bring are immaterial if they provide an excuse for your insurance adjuster to deny a claim in the event of fire. I refuse to give them any excuse even if I could fight it in court. It's not only not worth the effort but it would be unfair to subject others living in the house to the possibility of a claim denial. Make sure as I have that your permanent installation meets regulations.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Once upon a time I might have had a clue what wire gauge equated to, but I've been 'metricated' for too long. I used to hang a length of 16 gauge (?) solder wire on the end of my Decca International arm to get the VTF; things have changed, thank Heavens, and my solder is now in metric.
Does 110 v mains make a difference to kit designed for it? Surely not ......
dave
Plywood King
LOL..I have no idea if my naim would prefer the 220 or 240V it was designed for but I've always thought about trying it. It may not make a difference at least with our 220V lines because of other differences in our power infrastructure. Difficult to say.
Now we're nearly getting into the whole area of which type/brand/colour of breaker sounds best. Please, let's not go there.....
Dave, I'm surprised you of all people haven't upped sticks and moved to Salisbury. The full voltage, plus you could more easily align your kit with Mecca - no more need to use GPS or a divining rod.
Have a nice one by the way.
Mr Tibbs
Mike Reed
pfm Member
dave
Plywood King
Now we're nearly getting into the whole area of which type/brand/colour of breaker sounds best. Please, let's not go there.....
Errr..that was the reason for my post to explain there are no differences with just different gauge wire from that experiment. Upping the amperage with a larger breaker (and wire only out of necessity to meet code with a bigger breaker) makes the difference.
Sorry dave - it wasn't aimed at you, just an observation on how the whole debate can easily spiral into a tangled web. I got tired of the mains debates when I realised that a change of 'speakers is about 1 million times more effective at changing the sound of a system (for better or worse)
Mr Tibbs
dave
Plywood King
LOL..NP!
I could start a new thread (disagreement) regarding the importance of speakers (or lack of it from my perspective) but I'm feeling the need to spin some tunes ;-)
Before I head downstairs...have a new pair of speakers entered the Tibb's household?
best,
dave
Quite, zener. The GIGO principal is just as relevant today, but you can put together a suitably competent system these days without too much stress or outlay. That's not to say a better front end is ever a waste of money.....
Mr Tibbs
dave
Plywood King
Glad you found Nirvana w/the Gales Mr. Tibbs.
I've found a few speakers over the years which made a worthwhile difference but overall, speakers are mostly just different in the amount of boom and tizz to me and therefore largely unimportant- it basically amounts to what flavor of congestion do I want to live with.
Unfortunately the few which brought major improvements in transparency (a handful of electrostatics) had other issues which made them difficult to live with in the long term so they were ultimately nothing for me to get overly excited about as well.
Regardless, I'm glad you found something that really satisfies since many seem to have a problem choosing this particular component.
regards,
dave
I've found a few speakers over the years which made a worthwhile difference but overall, speakers are mostly just different in the amount of boom and tizz to me and therefore largely unimportant- it basically amounts to what flavor of congestion do I want to live with.
Unfortunately the few which brought major improvements in transparency (a handful of electrostatics) had other issues which made them difficult to live with in the long term so they were ultimately nothing for me to get overly excited about as well.
Regardless, I'm glad you found something that really satisfies since many seem to have a problem choosing this particular component.
regards,
dave
Thanks Mr Reed
As I said it is this end of things that I am not sure of yet, I would welcome the input of my sparkies and also hifi experience