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Dave Brubeck 'Time Out' different versions

M

miles_b

pfm Member
I currently have two versions of this classic recording in my collection - the Australian black CD release on Sony/Columbia from 2004, and the Jazz Wax Records JWR 4525 Direct Metal Mastering 180 gram LP from 2010. It's absolutely stunning how much better the LP is than the CD. Comparatively, the CD sounds two-dimensional and like the instruments are made of cardboard. The LP sounds rich and dimensional, and particularly on the intro to "Strange Meadow Lark," Dave's piano sounds as if it could have been recorded yesterday. There's a little more tape hiss on the LP, but there's also a better sense of space between the instruments, and the bass is tighter / more solid.

I was under the impression that the Australian black CD releases were supposed to be top quality, but I'm a bit disappointed there. Is there a better CD release that I'm missing out on? Heck, is there a better LP release that I'm missing out on? I'd prefer not to go chasing down some impossibly rare and expensive 45 RPM pressing, but short of that, which are your favorites that are available now?
 
miles_b said:
Is there a better CD release that I'm missing out on? Heck, is there a better LP release that I'm missing out on? I'd prefer not to go chasing down some impossibly rare and expensive 45 RPM pressing, but short of that, which are your favorites that are available now?
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Analog Productions 33 or 45.
 
The Jazz Wax issue looks like a knock-off/pirate, see Steve Hoffman’s site here. As such it could be a needle-drop, re-EQd CD, copy of a cassette, in fact anything aside from a transcription of the actual master tape. I’m surprised you feel the Columbia CD sounds poor, I’m assuming it is the same mastering as The Complete Columbia Studio Albums Collection, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. I also have the long out of print Classic Records audiophile vinyl which is wonderful.
 
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I have DeAgostini and as Stunsworth says It is pretty good. It is probably from a digital master tape though, but it is a properly licensed reissue. The DeAgostini shop where you have been able to order back numbers seems to have been offline for a couple of weeks now, but they say you can order by phone. The back numbers are £14.99 each.

https://shop.deagostini.co.uk/
 
It's an album that sold really well at the time so vintage copies aren't super expensive, especially European pressings in VG+ or EX condition if you can live with a copy that isn't minty.

Does anyone know how these compare sonically to US originals?
 
Tony L said:
The Jazz Wax issue looks like a knock-off/pirate, see Steve Hoffman’s site here. As such it could be a needle-drop, re-EQd CD, copy of a cassette, in fact anything aside from a transcription of the actual master tape. I’m surprised you feel the Columbia CD sounds poor, I’m assuming it is the same mastering as The Complete Columbia Studio Albums Collection, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. I also have the long out of print Classic Records audiophile vinyl which is wonderful.
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That JWR pressing came from Amoeba Music. It was the only new pressing they had in stock at the time. All of the printing and packaging had the appearance of an official release, and the price was the same as new Columbia reissues of Miles Davis albums on vinyl, so I didn't really think to check the issuing label before purchasing it. There is a sticker on the front that claims it to be newly-remastered, so I'm not sure what that entailed - no further details on who did the remastering, when, where, or with what equipment. But it still manages to sound richer and more dimensional than what was supposedly the best CD release at the time. Those black CDs were supposed to have some sort of advantage in controlling stray reflections during playback.

Anyhow, it looks like the Analog Productions is still available new, and the price seems reasonable for what it is. I think I'll file that way for the next time I pick up a new issue of the album.
 
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myles said:
Yeah, I bought this recently on recommendation from the Hoffman forum. I was cynical about the Jazz LP series but it seems I shouldn't have been.
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I bought the whole series and was disappointed when it ended after 70 issues - at the launch they said there’d be 100.
 
miles_b said:
That JWR pressing came from Amoeba Music. It was the only new pressing they had in stock at the time.
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That really surprises me as copyright law is stricter in the USA and it is very clearly a pirate assuming it is this copy (Discogs). Instant tells are the removal of all Columbia branding and the lack of any meaningful copyright info or licensing. I’m surprised Amoeba would have it in their shop (I’d not have it in mine and its legal here!).

PS Chances are it is just a copy of the CD with a bit of bass boost! The pirates very often apply a bit of EQ to disguise the actual mastering source.
 
Tony L said:
That really surprises me as copyright law is stricter in the USA and it is very clearly a pirate assuming it is this copy (Discogs). Instant tells are the removal of all Columbia branding and the lack of any meaningful copyright info or licensing. I’m surprised Amoeba would have it in their shop (I’d not have it in mine and its legal here!).

PS Chances are it is just a copy of the CD with a bit of bass boost! The pirates very often apply a bit of EQ to disguise the actual mastering source.
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That appears to be what I have. But interestingly, if you scroll down on the page, all of the reviews are also praising the sound quality, some in spite of being weary of JWR's reputation. As far as copyright issues relating to Amoeba carrying the record, I would expect that if the US distributor of this pressing represented it as an authorized reissue to Amoeba's buyer, the distributor would carry the burden of copyright law more so than the store. Regardless, it's such an enormous store, that I doubt they have the staff capacity to research the provenance of every disc coming through their doors. As a brick and mortar retail establishment with only 3 locations, they're probably much less a target for copyright investigation and enforcement than a large online seller would be.
 
paulfromcamden said:
It's an album that sold really well at the time so vintage copies aren't super expensive, especially European pressings in VG+ or EX condition if you can live with a copy that isn't minty.

Does anyone know how these compare sonically to US originals?
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I've got a UK 1959 mono Fontana copy which sounds very good, detailed and dynamic. I don't think it was stupidly expensive. I have not compared it to any of the reissues.
 
The basic Sony CD release sounds pretty amazing to me. One of the best recordings in my collection. Amazing really for something recorded 60 years ago.
 
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