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DACs vs Turntables

JensenHealey said:
So my question back to the OP - what is 'outperform'? And how do you recognise or measure it.
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Yes indeed. Apologies for the lack of clarity. I meant outperform subjectively. I suppose the question should be: can you suggest a modestly priced dac that sounds as good as or better than your high end vinyl front end in your subjective opinion?

However, the thread is a year old and I can now no longer afford even a modestly priced dac but nonetheless the answers may be of interest to others.
 
I'm not a high end man nowadays. But my £400 Soncoz SG1 comprehensively outperforms my £2000 VPI/Roksan/ortofon anolog set up , with local files, streaming and cds. I cant see me upgrading the TT now - it just doesn't get used.
 
Darren said:
I'm not a high end man nowadays. But my £400 Soncoz SG1 comprehensively outperforms my £2000 VPI/Roksan/ortofon anolog set up , with local files, streaming and cds. I cant see me upgrading the TT now - it just doesn't get used.
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Funny old game, no way would I have kept the SG1 instead of my 1200GR/PTG33II, the SONCOZ is excellent for the price but not as enjoyable to listen to as the Techy, usual imho/ymmv.
 
Mr Pig said:
I have a question for you? A serous one. Nothing whatsoever to do with the original question but just while you're talking about our understanding of digital audio.

I have been using a Rega Saturn-R as a transport for years. A few months ago I fitted a Mana Clamp to it. Out of curiosity but I really did not expect it to do anything at all. The improvement is great! I won't go into details, they don't really matter, as I do not understand how it can make any difference at all? The box does is spit out a data stream to the DAC. Surely that either works or it doesn't? I already knew that different transports don't all sound the same but this makes no sense to me at all.
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Interesting, wasn’t aware of this product. Found this link: https://adriancowderoy.com/the-mana-acoustics-clamp-customer-review/

Figured out a few years ago that rubber feet were not helpful for drainage...
 
Amber Audio said:
Funny old game, no way would I have kept the SG1 instead of my 1200GR/PTG33II, the SONCOZ is excellent for the price but not as enjoyable to listen to as the Techy, usual imho/ymmv.
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I do like the look of the new Technics turntables Gus. Glad you are enjoying yours.
 
Darren said:
I do like the look of the new Technics turntables Gus. Glad you are enjoying yours.
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I’m sure in my case there is a lot of emotional attachment, ritual and historical influence involved with what I like and buy. When I spin an LP and read the cover/liner I am often reminded of events around either buying or listening to it when it was fresh, I started buying LPs late 70’s, CD never gives me that experience it was always just a transaction and streaming easily supplants it for me.

If I like a particular new album I’ve streamed I will often buy the vinyl, usually a special edition, fulfils the collecting part of the hobby I guess. As for DAC vs TT, I’d rate my main system about even but the experiance of vinyl feels more of an event, I’ll generally have a full weekend just playing vinyl every so often, can't beat the convenience of a streamer/dac so that’s my go to. I enjoy the music equally, for the experience I favour vinyl.
 
JensenHealey said:
Someone noted the famous trial where Mr 'Linn' was unable to tell the difference between a live LP playing and a digital 'recording' of the same LP..
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Who did this test? Was it Linn? At a time when record player sales were in the toilet and Linn had new digital systems to sell?

John Phillips said:
My PoV is that the digital parts of a system, including DACs, can be essentially transparent and substitutable, for relatively little expenditure.
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Mmm, I know where you're coming from. Digital is largly technology based and lends itself to mass production, while turntables are engineering products and hard to produce cheaply, and I think digital varies much less than vinyl, but variations do exist. Whether higher cost equates to better is another matter though?

hermit said:
I suppose the question should be: can you suggest a modestly priced dac that sounds as good as or better than your high end vinyl front end in your subjective opinion?
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The Saturn-R feeding my Rega DAC cost a couple of grand but an old Philips CD player is almost as good and yes, this CD system trades punches with my RP10. The CD system is more consistent, all CDs sound at least ok, and some albums sound better on CD than they do on vinyl. If I was forced to keep only one it would be the CD player/DAC.
 
shug4476 said:
For sheer musicality my fairly modest Rega P2 is still ahead of my Chord DAC. I adore the Chord DAC I should add.
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I'm not arguing with you but it's worth pointing out that digital can be just as rewarding. My RP10 has what I would call a 'cold' sound and I find my CD player warmer, richer and more musically satisfying. Not all digital is cold and not all vinyl is warm.
 
Mr Pig said:
I'm not arguing with you but it's worth pointing out that digital can be just as rewarding. My RP10 has what I would call a 'cold' sound and I find my CD player warmer, richer and more musically satisfying. Not all digital is cold and not all vinyl is warm.
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I haven't made the warm/cold distinction myself. Rhythm is where I notice the biggest differences.
 
Mr Pig said:
I'm listening to the Saturn-R/Rega DAC just now and feck me it's good! The Rega Clamp made a heluva difference. It sounds like good analogue. It sounds more analogue than the turntable!

Van Morrison by the way ;0)
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Been tempted by a Rega DAC more than once. Maybe I'll tip my toe in the water...
 
shug4476 said:
Been tempted by a Rega DAC more than once. Maybe I'll tip my toe in the water...
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I'm not saying the Rega is the best DAC in the world. Treated nicely it does sound lovely but I'm sure there are plenty of good DACs. My real point is that digital can sound just as musical and rewarding as vinyl and it's not a foregone conclusion that a turntable will automatically be better.
 
Mr Pig said:
I'm not saying the Rega is the best DAC in the world. Treated nicely it does sound lovely but I'm sure there are plenty of good DACs. My real point is that digital can sound just as musical and rewarding as vinyl and it's not a foregone conclusion that a turntable will automatically be better.
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If there were no subjective element then all design would converge and everybody would buy a single model/mode of listening.
 
Mr Pig said:
Who did this test? Was it Linn? At a time when record player sales were in the toilet and Linn had new digital systems to sell?
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No. It was not Linn.

The Saturn-R feeding my Rega DAC cost a couple of grand but an old Philips CD player is almost as good and yes, this CD system trades punches with my RP10. The CD system is more consistent, all CDs sound at least ok, and some albums sound better on CD than they do on vinyl. If I was forced to keep only one it would be the CD player/DAC.
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You seem to miss the point of digital. Digital is not good because you like it (though you may like it, of course). It is good because it sounds more like the original recording, more than any vinyl system ever could.
 
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