Cycling log - random events in the day of a cyclist II

[avole]

By the way, if anyone farcies a touring holiday around my part of France, give me a hoy. I'm thinking Auxerre/Clamecy/Morvan/Dijon, which may well include some stunning scenery but also canal paths and even a couple of days floating down on one of the boats if anyone needs the rest and the compulsory wine.

Yes, by the way, we'll pass through the Tannay région for their wines, and maybe a couple of others.

 

[SteveG]

Also wondering about handlebars - might change for the old fashioned types like butterfly bars. You still see them occasonally on touring bikes here, and I only took them off because they were a bit cumbersome on some trains, buses etc.

I've never tried butterfly bars but they are pretty common on touring and hybrid bikes on the continent. If I want lots of hand position options on a drop bar road bike I stick clip-on aero-bars on - they can be very useful into the wind.

On the flat-bar hybrid I use as my tourer/commuter I had little bar-ends on - those pretty much replicated the "on-hoods" hand position from drop bars and that was pretty comfortable.

In the UK then Planet-X have lots of wierd and wonderful handlebar options: https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/components/finishing-kit/handle-bars

 

[avole]

Oh, and I have 4 bikes which others may use if they or their partners don't want to bring their own.

 

[SteveG]

I took the revised Soul out for a shakedown ride up into the Pentlands to check out the 1x11 set-up was working ok and it was all working well with no need for tweaks to the drivetrain etc. Felt very good in fact and it definitely feels nicer as a more XC build (it's lost a lot of weight and is down to a reasonable 25lbs or so now). With the 34 up front and the wide range 11-46 cassette the gearing is pretty good for general trail stuff although I did find I was spending a lot of time in the highest gear, with the lack of higher gears slowing me a little on some sections - especially on the flat with a tail-wind. 20-21mph on the flat is comfortable enough and on one but I was holding 24mph for a while although that is quite twiddly.

The lightweight wheels definitely make the bike feel faster - and given I wasn't particularly pushing tonight (and my average HR bears that out as it was a roughly equal Z2/Z3 split) the times on the various Strava segments I went through would tend to indicate the bike is quite fast now. Of the 24 Strava segments on the route I set PR's on 13 of them, which isn't a bad result given it wasn't a great night for Strava times. One of the segments I'm even up to 7th overall (of 1748) which is nice although I'll need to have a proper go at that bit on my Epic as that bike is still a lot faster than the Soul is.

Of all the bikes I've ridden the Soul is still one of my all-time favourites so I've really pleased that the rebuild has got it back to being a lovely bike to ride again. There are still a few bits of the build I'll want to tweak as it could do with a better cockpit set-up (it's got mid-range FSA bars and an Easton EA50 stem at the moment but I'm pretty sure I've better stuff in the garage somewhere) and maybe a nicer chainset but it's riding well so not a priority.

I couldn't resist adding a of bling, with the blue oval chainring (which felt fine in use although I can't say I felt any improvement over a round one) and a change to grips with blue lock-on bits. And if the 11-42 cassette on the Inbred looked huge, check out the 11-46 on this bad boy!

 

[2ManyBoxes]

34:46 on a bike that weighs 25 lbs - Matterhorn ahoy?

Different generation, different world.

Mountain bikes on the road are a terrible idea, you can go 10 mph faster on an equivalent road bike.

Mountain bikes off the road are a terrible idea for me, I'd be in and out of hospital breaking bones, the air ambulance would know me by name There's far too many rocks, I'd be scared of putting myself in a wheelchair.

 

[SteveG]

34:46 on a bike that weighs 25 lbs - Matterhorn ahoy?

Different generation, different world.

While I realise you're just putting weaklings like me (and every XC racer, including those competing at world level as they run similar gearing) who might feel the need for such low gears in their place I think it's worth educating you a little:
1) While we have those low gears on our bikes we don't need them all that often.
2) Mountain bike routes often do have really steep bits - and I mean really steep. The route I did last night didn't have any really steep climbs (nothing over 20% in fact), but lots of my other local routes do.
3) Not only do we ride steep stuff but it's often technical (i.e. not smooth tarmac) and slippery (so standing up and grunting up it in a big gear wouldn't get you a yard of progress before you spun out) so you need low gears to have any chance of getting to the top, no matter how fit and strong you are.

If you want to demonstrate me wrong then I for one would enjoy seeing you try and ride my local trails using 39:23 or whatever it is you feel is an acceptable low ratio for a proper cyclist...

It's also worth noting that the recent changes to that bike have raised the lowest gear available as it had 22:32 available before when it was running 3x9 - that being pretty much the standard low gear for a mountain bike for the last 20 years or so.

For a lot of road cyclists the challenge is about the climbs and they like to test themselves on the uphills, but for many (most?) mountain bikers the climbs are often just a way to get you to the top of the next fun descent. Descents that won't be fun or fast if you're at max HR at the start - so lots of people like to take the climbs easy in a low gear.

Of course in my case the reason I have such low gears is that I am indeed weak and slow!

 

[avole]

Well said, young SteveG. I took out my tourner again to-day and did 20k-ish in some pretty flattish countryside. I needed the low gears on the gravel and the potholes, not to mention the two mild climbs - didm't want to push it, easy cycling fitness training.

My bike has 3x8 gears, and up wondering about adding 2 extra low gears and removing the two top. That ian't herses, by the way, the two top are nearly the same, and if I'm in one, you can bet I could go just as fast freewheeling.

Cleats a lot easier to use today. Did nothing, think both they and I have worn in a bit.

 

[stevec67]

My bike has 3x8 gears, and up wondering about adding 2 extra low gears and removing the two top. That ian't herses, by the way, the two top are nearly the same, and if I'm in one, you can bet I could go just as fast freewheeling.
.

The easiest way to do this is to fit a smaller front ring. This assumes that the chainrings will unscrew, if it's a cheap one that's pressed and riveted then you are stuck with it. Assuming it's a good one and will change rings, you have 3 rings so the bottom one from a compact MTB chainset at either 22 or 24, I can't remember offhand, will be perfect. I took a mountain bike with slick tyres and touring gear up a proper mountain, Mont Ventoux, with this. My pal had a granny ring that I gave him from an old MTB. I didn't even need the very lowest gear.

Failing this 8 speed cassettes are cheap and they come in standard or wide range. Standard is something like 28 or 30 on the granny gear, IIRC wide is 31 or 32, so this is an easy and cheap swap.

 

[stevec67]

Mountain bikes on the road are a terrible idea, you can go 10 mph faster on an equivalent road bike.
.

I wish you could. I used to commute on an old MTB with slicks, over many thousands of miles I averaged 14 or 15mph when rolling, according to the computer. This included tootling around town, visiting friends and the like. If I added 10mph to that I would have a 25mph average without breaking into a sweat and I would be the king of the local time trial scene. Or not, I can't think of anything more boring than blazing up the A1 at 5am on a Sunday, turning round and blazing back.

In the real world there is about 2-3mph average difference at normal commuter speeds, if you are lucky. Changing from 26 x 2.0 knobblies to 26 x 1.5 slicks on road is worth 2mph on its own, with maybe 1mph extra from the road bike with 700x25 or 28, drops, etc. I suspect the difference is greater at higher speeds, but I haven't seen many club cyclists who regularly bowl along at 20mph average.

 

[Woodface]

Average speeds are pretty meaningless as the terrain is the determining factor. Easier to do a 20mph average in Lincolnshire than the Peak District.

 

[SteveG]

The easiest way to do this is to fit a smaller front ring. This assumes that the chainrings will unscrew, if it's a cheap one that's pressed and riveted then you are stuck with it. Assuming it's a good one and will change rings, you have 3 rings so the bottom one from a compact MTB chainset at either 22 or 24, I can't remember offhand, will be perfect. I took a mountain bike with slick tyres and touring gear up a proper mountain, Mont Ventoux, with this. My pal had a granny ring that I gave him from an old MTB. I didn't even need the very lowest gear.

The chainset would also be my first thought on that as well, and I've changed road triples to MTB triples to get lower gears before, although that can required a change of BB as well. As you said, it does depend on what's on there at the moment and whether that can be changed.

Failing this 8 speed cassettes are cheap and they come in standard or wide range. Standard is something like 28 or 30 on the granny gear, IIRC wide is 31 or 32, so this is an easy and cheap swap.

The only thing worth bearing in mind is that if the rear mech is a short cage one there will be a limit on how big a cassette you can go to before needing a long-cage mech.

For touring type bikes in particular it's good to have low gears as no matter how strong a rider you are there will come a time where you're heavily laden and battering uphill into a headwind at the end of a long day (or long week) where there will be no such thing as too low a gear.

 

[avole]

Hi Steve, they are no great shakes, Shimano Claris*, so I'll have a look.

* Only buy shimano for gears and brakes,legacy of how highly they are regarded in Australia. I'm talking country Oz, too.

 

[SteveG]

In the real world there is about 2-3mph average difference at normal commuter speeds, if you are lucky. Changing from 26 x 2.0 knobblies to 26 x 1.5 slicks on road is worth 2mph on its own, with maybe 1mph extra from the road bike with 700x25 or 28, drops, etc. I suspect the difference is greater at higher speeds, but I haven't seen many club cyclists who regularly bowl along at 20mph average.

I've seen plenty that say they'll average 20mph+ on rides but very little evidence of it actually happening. Even our race group didn't average that on their training rides. I tend to average between 15 to 17mph on the road bike (depending on how hilly it is and what kind of mood I'm in) and while I will have done the occasional ride at over 20mph average I suspect nearly all of those will have been when I've been on a TT bike.

Off-road rides on the mountain bike I tend to average maybe 12mph and would certainly expect a good bit higher average than that if sticking to tarmac and without the steep off-road climbs - so would also expect that over shorter/medium distances I might only be a couple of mph faster on the road bike. On some of the road Strava segments near home (and not just downhill ones) my PR was actually set on one of the mountain bikes - although sometimes that'll be just because I ride the mountain bike more often there (e.g. bits of road I use to link trails) or because I just happened to have a strong tailwind (as was the case with a couple of road segments I PR'd on my Soul last night).

 

[SteveG]

Hi Steve, they are no great shakes, Shimano Claris*, so I'll have a look.

* Only buy shimano for gears and brakes,legacy of how high they are regarded in Australia. I'm talking country Oz, too.

Nothing wrong with Claris and I'm also an all Shimano shop given my one and only SRAM bike has now gone.

One good thing with most of the Shimano stuff (apart from some of the very recent gear) is that there was cross-compatibility between much of the MTB and road groupsets. When I first got my Roubaix I stuck a long cage XTR mountain bike rear mech on it as well as an 11-32 mountain bike cassette and that worked fine with the 9-speed road shifters (Tiagra I think) that were on it at the time. I was ahead of my time though, as road groupsets often do have long cage rear mechs and 11-32 cassettes on, and when I upgraded the Roubaix to a 2x10 set-up a few years back I still went with a long-cage rear mech and an 11-32 cassette although this time they're road ones.

 

[stevec67]

Average speeds are pretty meaningless as the terrain is the determining factor. Easier to do a 20mph average in Lincolnshire than the Peak District.

Fo' sho', and my comments are based on real world observations on averagely flat terrain. I reckon the 2-3mph difference between MTB and road applies to most situations, bearing in mind most of us don't cycle to work up the Alpe d'Huez. Sadly.

The chainset would also be my first thought on that as well, and I've changed road triples to MTB triples to get lower gears before, although that can required a change of BB as well. As you said, it does depend on what's on there at the moment and whether that can be changed.

Yes, it can be awkward. My pal's chainset swapped over without pain but at the time a lot of road bikes intended for touring ere being fitted with MTB size spiders. A swap to a 22 that I had salvaged from an old MTB gave him all the low gears he needed. A cassette with a few more teeth is an easy and cheap change, if not. Again my experience of touring biased bikes is that they are unfazed by cassettes with 30 or 32 teeth.

For touring type bikes in particular it's good to have low gears as no matter how strong a rider you are there will come a time where you're heavily laden and battering uphill into a headwind at the end of a long day (or long week) where there will be no such thing as too low a gear.

Dead right. I don't care how much of a hard man you may be or want to be, when there is nothing left after too many miles and there's a hill, all the macho bollocks about 30 tooth cassettes or (heavens!) triples being for weeds goes out of the window and everyone will take the lowest gear available.[/QUOTE]

 

[2ManyBoxes]

If I'd realised that you're so sensitive about this then I wouldn't have posted. You carry on in your own little world. I won't be bothering to look at this thread again.

 

[SteveG]

If I'd realised that you're so sensitive about this then I wouldn't have posted. You carry on in your own little world. I won't be bothering to look at this thread again.

Not sensitive - just trying to educate you as it was clear from your post that you weren't that familiar with mountain biking and why the gearing needs were very different.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Climbing something so steep that if you lean 1° too far forward the rear wheel spins, 1° too far back and the front wheel lifts. Challenging!

 

[SteveG]

Climbing something so steep that if you lean 1° too far forward the rear wheel spins, 1° too far back and the front wheel lifts. Challenging!

Indeed - and also knowing that if you do come to a standstill there will be zero chance of getting started again 'cause it's too steep and too slippery.

 

[sean99]

Climbing something so steep that if you lean 1° too far forward the rear wheel spins, 1° too far back and the front wheel lifts. Challenging!

And then descending with your stomach on the saddle, feeling the speed pick up a bit too much, but the rear wheel comes off the ground if you pull the front brake too hard (and the rear brake is of no use).

Getting the gearing right can make a night and day difference to a bike. I bought a cheap specialized road bike last year that came with 50-34 up front and 11-28 at the back, but being only 9 speed (Sora) the jumps between gears were too big to maintain an even cadence (and 50-34 is a big jump up front - always riding with crossed chain). The 11-28 was swapped for a 12-25 and the 50 up front replaced with a 46 (34-46) and it's now fantastic for the rolling countryside. Also I've found that the hills I can comfortably climb in 34-25 I can also descend in 46-12 without running out of top end (just).

I have a bit of a beef with bike manufacturers selling bikes to the public with the same gearing that the pros ride. (To think my older road bike used to have a 53x11 when I bought it - I'd have to be riding down a cliff to need that now).