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Coronavirus - the new strain VII

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gavreid said:
2000 deaths in Scotland could have been avoided with earlier lockdown...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52617895
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Horrible but, sadly, not surprising. :( The SG will likely have been receiving its advice from SAGE, after all, despite the many independent experts calling for action sooner.

If Scotland had acted sooner, (presumably against SAGE's advice ?), can you imagine the reaction for doing so - just look at the reaction, from the usual suspects, to the SG not starting to release 'lockdown' at the same time as England.

My concern throughout has been Nicola Sturgeon's, seemingly obsessive, talk of four nation approach, and I fear this horrifying number of potential extra deaths is just part of the outcome. Sadly, the limits of devolution, and the undoubted politics behind the scenes will, I'm guessing, have played its part. :(

I wonder how many potential extra deaths have resulted from the Tories not implementing 'lockdown' sooner in England?
 
Caledon1297 said:
My concern throughout has been Nicola Sturgeon's, seemingly obsessive, talk of four nation approach
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I think that's partly because she's been trying to avoid making it about politics, and also partly because it does make things easier and clearer if all parts of the UK are following the same approach. There is only so far she can go with that though when the UK approach differs from scientific advice.

BTW if you think the comments from the usual SNP haters on here are bad you should see some of the spats between the Welsh and English at the moment. The difference in approach seems to be a bit more of a practical difficulty there as it seems quite a few people live in Wales but work in England (and while there will be some of that up here I doubt it's anything like as many).
 
Caledon1297 said:
Horrible but, sadly, not surprising. :( The SG will likely have been receiving its advice from SAGE, after all, despite the many independent experts calling for action sooner.

If Scotland had acted sooner, (presumably against SAGE's advice ?), can you imagine the reaction for doing so - just look at the reaction, from the usual suspects, to the SG not starting to release 'lockdown' at the same time as England.

My concern throughout has been Nicola Sturgeon's, seemingly obsessive, talk of four nation approach, and I fear this horrifying number of potential extra deaths is just part of the outcome. Sadly, the limits of devolution, and the undoubted politics behind the scenes will, I'm guessing, have played its part. :(

I wonder how many potential extra deaths have resulted from the Tories not implementing 'lockdown' sooner in England?
Click to expand...

Wonder no more:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-englands-excess-deaths-among-the-highest-in-europe-11977394

The charts in the above article use z-scores (number of standard deviations from the historic mean) on the y-axis. On that basis, England looks significantly worse than the other three nations in the UK. The FT tracker has actual numbers but doesn't break down the UK figures:

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441
 
billo said:
Good old British sense. Yeah, right the people who stockpiled toilet paper as they thought it was made in China, or the people who rang 999 when KFC ran out of chicken
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The vast majority are pretty sensible and fully capable of working it out. There will always be morons who are beyond help I’m afraid.
 
Ponty said:
The vast majority are pretty sensible and fully capable of working it out. There will always be morons who are beyond help I’m afraid.
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As the government is fond of reminding us, the current situation is unprecedented. Common sense is not much use in such circumstances.

What the public needs is clear information about the nature and scale of the risk, delivered without political spin. We're getting the opposite of that and many people will die, through no fault of their own as a result.

The contrast with the approach in Germany and New Zealand (to pick just two of the many countries that have managed this better) could not be starker.
 
SteveG said:
I think that's partly because she's been trying to avoid making it about politics, and also partly because it does make things easier and clearer if all parts of the UK are following the same approach. There is only so far she can go with that though when the UK approach differs from scientific advice.

BTW if you think the comments from the usual SNP haters on here are bad you should see some of the spats between the Welsh and English at the moment. The difference in approach seems to be a bit more of a practical difficulty there as it seems quite a few people live in Wales but work in England (and while there will be some of that up here I doubt it's anything like as many).
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I've seen reports about Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski calling for the abolition of the Senedd, and for a political union between England and Wales, in light of the divergence between the countries, 'so that he can go to the beach' (the last part is somewhat paraphrased, I think). :rolleyes:
 
Ponty said:
The vast majority are pretty sensible and fully capable of working it out. There will always be morons who are beyond help I’m afraid.
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But,with the number of behaviour scientists on board at SAGE you would think that the message could be tailored towards those who need a little 'nudge' to make the right decision
 
Caledon1297 said:
I've seen reports about Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski calling for the abolition of the Senedd, and for a political union between England and Wales, in light of the divergence between the countries, 'so that he can go to the beach' (the last part is somewhat paraphrased, I think). :rolleyes:
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Kwaczynski has links to the Polish far right. He seems to have a different appreciation of what democratic politics mean to the rest of us in most of Europe. Remember he did a General Flynn and flew to Warsaw in the middle of Theresa May’s battle to secure a deal with the EU to request that the Polish government exercise its veto to block any delay to Britain’s departure beyond Oct 2019. He may have been freelancing, though that’s unlikely since all hands were to the wheel within the ERG to bring down May and replace her with Johnson. The fact that he’s now calling for Anschluss with Wales doesn’t surprise me. Coved-19 will simply represent another front in the dirty war that his faction is running in Britain.
 
richardg said:
Aren't there more per million cases in Scotland than there are in England?
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I know you're just looking for any way to make the Scottish, and the SNP in particular, look bad however you have to be careful using statistics. For example, even if true, that could just be because Scotland was doing relatively more testing than England was (which was definitely true earlier in the outbreak although I'm not so sure now as the testing stats for England currently look like bollocks). That could also be why Scotland has a relatively lower death rate than in England.
 
vuk said:
ALERT

hey brexit obsessives, this is yet another thread you are f*cking up. you may not have noticed, but there is a serious decline in non-UK participation on the forum.

very bad.

not good.
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Hey obsessive forum policeman. If you've been paying attention you'll have noticed that to some degree the two issues are related. Beyond that the topic is still on track.
 
SteveG said:
I know you're just looking for any way to make the Scottish, and the SNP in particular, look bad however you have to be careful using statistics. For example, even if true, that could just be because Scotland was doing relatively more testing than England was (which was definitely true earlier in the outbreak although I'm not so sure now as the testing stats for England currently look like bollocks). That could also be why Scotland has a relatively lower death rate than in England.
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Remove Scottish from that and you may have a point.
 
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