Corbyn sceptics, what do you think of him now (part II)?

[calorgas]

A general election might happen in the not too distant future. Labour could go into that and say although they were against Brexit, they have tried to implement the EU Referendum result. However things have changed economically and politically in the interim.

The lack of any sort of general support from the Labour leadership for the remain side was painfully clear all the way through the referendum campaign. I voted Labour for the first time ever in the election just gone, they'd lose my vote again instantly if they then pretended that they'd all been against Brexit all along. That history is too recent to attempt to re-write.

 

[ks.234]

The lack of any sort of general support from the Labour leadership for the remain side was painfully clear all the way through the referendum campaign. I voted Labour for the first time ever in the election just gone, they'd lose my vote again instantly if they then pretended that they'd all been against Brexit all along. That history is too recent to attempt to re-write.

I thought the Labour position was against Brexit all along

 

[Rosie]

I thought the Labour position was against Brexit all along

Yes ! Well 7 out of 10 remain !

 

[Seanm]

They voted to keep Britain in the single market , thats the matter of principal. Which was the position Labour had in the Referendum. Labour's policy now as I understand it is to leave the single market but to retain all of the benefits of membership of the single market through negotiation . So why sack them

That's not a principle. They were sacked for voting against the whip and against the manifesto on which they were elected a matter of weeks ago.

 

[calorgas]

I thought the Labour position was against Brexit all along

Really? I don't recall the Mr Corbyn (i.e. the leader) ever expressing any support for remaining. In fact he seemed to spend most of the time in hiding.

 

[pure sound]

It didn't help that during the referendum campaign, the media were entirely focused on the spectacle of 'blue on blue' attacks ie Johnson v Cameron.

Few others got much if any coverage.

 

[maxflinn]

Really? I don't recall the Mr Corbyn (i.e. the leader) ever expressing any support for remaining. In fact he seemed to spend most of the time in hiding.

From a year ago. The first quote describing Corbyn's tireless remain campaigning.

The second quote was made after the coup attempt against him was launched:

 

[ks.234]

Really? I don't recall the Mr Corbyn (i.e. the leader) ever expressing any support for remaining. In fact he seemed to spend most of the time in hiding.

Well, he did, and if you think he didn't, and if Leave was such a big issue for you, why did you vote for him?

 

[farfromthesun]

I think he has made an error. By not opposing the Tories he has shackled Labour to the impending Brexit economic disaster. It would have been far smarter to let the Tories own that one alone. He certainly shouldn't have applied a whip, it should have been a free-vote allowing Labour MPs to vote with their constituencies, which differ greatly, rather than forcing a party-line. One of the dumbest moves he's made to date IMHO.

100% agree. The future looks even more bleak today.

 

[calorgas]

It didn't help that during the referendum campaign, the media were entirely focused on the spectacle of 'blue on blue' attacks ie Johnson v Cameron.

Few others got much if any coverage.

Yeah that may be, and freak-show Farage and his ugly twisted view of the world.

Anyhoo, perhaps Jeremy did make impassioned speeches on behalf of remaining in the EU and either the media didn't cover it or I just wasn't watching at the time. Either way, I was not left with a sense that Labour, as a party, were broadly in favour of remaining. I just didn't get that impression at all.

I was impressed with the vigour JC exhibited when campaigning for retaining his own position as Labour leader p), and he did impress during the general election campaign. Other than that, I still have reservations over whether he'll be able to hold his party together let alone be a decent PM if it came to that. But when offered the choice between the Tories and Corbyn Labour, I'll still plump for Jez. I have to add that that says more about my dislike for the Tories than it does for my fondness of JC and Labour.

 

[maxflinn]

They were sacked for voting against the whip and against the manifesto on which they were elected a matter of weeks ago.

And if he hadn't sacked them there'd be people saying he's not serious about honouring said manifesto, or that he's not a strong leader etc..

 

[merlin]

It's mildly amusing to see the usual suspects criticising a "weak leader without a mandate" for leading from the front and addressing issues on his front bench.

If there had been a similar purge on the Tory front benches it would have been seen as a reshuffle. Indeed in 2104 TWELVE Tories were fired from the cabinet/front bench yet no one claimed it was a sign of weakness.

Indeed the Torygraph referred to it thus,

David Cameron mounted a “cull of the middle-aged white men” in his biggest reshuffle since becoming Prime Minister.

Mr Cameron fired the starting gun for the general election by sacking or moving at least six Cabinet members to make way for a series of young women, who will be promoted on Tuesday.

So whilst it's mildly amusing to see the right wingers here trying to divert attention from the truly shambolic state of their Government and its disconnect with the majority of British society, let's have a sense of balance.

The move can be seen as a sign of weakness or as a sign of strength depending entirely on your personal bias. As to whether it was a mistake, only the passage of time will tell us that. My inclination is to suggest it's the right move (so disagreeing with some left wingers for once).

 

[calorgas]

Well, he did, and if you think he didn't, and if Leave was such a big issue for you, why did you vote for him?

Leave was a huge issue to me, in that it was the absolutely last thing that I wanted. That's what my criticism and lingering resentment is focused on I guess, he didn't seem (or was not seen to be) very much behind the remain campaign.

Or is this just me? Did I just miss his support? Did the media just not cover it?

 

[tqineil]

of course they didn't cover it, the tabloids thought his views irrelevant and focused on the red bus, Farage, BoJo an Fox

 

[richardg]

In fairness Brexit was always going to be bloody hard for Labour as their vote is more split in/out than any other party. IIRC 63% of Labour voters were 'remain', but much of that is centred around the metropolitan city areas, when viewed as seats there are a heck of a lot they need to retain in the very out/protectionist northern working class areas. There is just no way to please everyone. This is why I think Corbyn made a huge mistake not having a free vote on this, he should just have allowed PMs to vote on conviction or the overwhelming view in their seat.

Right. it's starting to whiff of too much gamesmanship now and his appeal is / was that he was totally transparent.

 

[merlin]

Leave was a huge issue to me, in that it was the absolutely last thing that I wanted. That's what my criticism and lingering resentment is focused on I guess, he didn't seem (or was not seen to be) very much behind the remain campaign.

Or is this just me? Did I just miss his support? Did the media just not cover it?

I can't remember much of the Remain campaign. The only person I've seen who has directly criticised Corbyn is Mandleson and I take that to be a good thing.

He refused to share a platform with Cameron but got by far the largest remain vote out there (by Party) and indeed his own constituency overwhelmingly voted remain.

His chance to "right the wrong" may well come along in the next two years if he sticks to his beliefs and doesn't react to every change in wind direction.

The Remain campaign lost for other reasons that are already being exposed and will only increase public anger and resentment with time - but please. Give it time.

 

[calorgas]

of course they didn't cover it, the tabloids thought his views irrelevant and focused on the red bus, Farage, BoJo an Fox

But not just the tabloids. I don't read the tabloids. I listen to Radio 4 and watch the news on the telly and read it on the BBC site.

I guess at the time Labour were in a bit of a mess with JC struggling to maintain control of his ranks and impose any authority, so I'm happy to concede that perhaps the media just didn't give him the air time.

However, if you google 'did Corbyn support the remain campaign' as I just did you get more articles suggesting he was anything but supportive (of the remain side) than those suggesting he was.

 

[merlin]

You rely on the BBC for your news?

That's your problem.

 

[maxflinn]

The BBC does news?

 

[calorgas]

You rely on the BBC for your news?

That's your problem.

Well you might be right there, ha ha, as I do largely, plus a bit of CH4.

Though I've heard both left and right criticise the Beeb for being 'partisan'. They can't both be correct!